I prefer this thread to stay on topic so i won’t comment anymore about the hubs… When I have done more testing and am happy that it is viable i will create a new thread to discuss it.
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Ok, after that interlude of esk8porn, back to topic : Onloop, you seem to draw a line in the sand between DIY individuals (and small quantity parts suppliers such as yourself) and the new Kicks(tarters) on the block.
What about companies like Evolve whose businesses also started on their mad scientist workbench, and who also want to share their enthusiasm for high spec’d up models and overengineering? Into which camp do these guys fall, in your opinion?
I actually don’t know the true history of evolve and the technology they are using… so i can only speculate.
This is what I think about evolve. (just my opinion based on observations)
They are a company that started out selling Chinese-mass-made electric skateboards. Over time they spent some money on custom molds to help differentiate their product from the ever increasing glut of identical made-in-china electric skateboards that flooded the market.
Through quality marketing campaigns & a solid branding strategy PLUS a slightly more refined product they have been able to become very successful. I think the carbon board and the partnership with other brand name skate suppliers (Bustin boards & MBS wheels) was critical to their ongoing success, they might actually be one of the biggest brands in the world for electric skateboards today…
> However, the fact of the matter is EVOLVE are still 1st generation technology
If they don’t keep innovating they will get left behind.
- 18650 battery tech
- brushless outrunners
- dual motors
- hub motors
- higher top speeds
They did just release an iphone/android app which does show that they are still working to stay relevant, However i think they wasted their money… personally i think iPhone apps for eboards are a gymick and the user base will always be low… iPhone & apps don’t make skateboarding any better its basically a me-too strategy so they look like they are gen 2.
anyway… below is my evidence that makes me draw to the conclusion that they are just reselling a Chinese solution (perhaps a slightly more refined version) that several other electric skateboard brands also have. In my opinion, and why i think they all suck, is they are way too heavy for the performance they deliver… Why have such a big fucking motor hanging off your trucks?
Ask yourself this question, if you are an electric skateboard company that (claims) to of built your electric skateboard product from the ground up & developed all the tech yourself why do so many look identical? if your are an innovator your product will be unique in the market.
- I consider most of the crowd funded campaigners as 2nd generation.
- Ultimately its the DIYers who keep pushing the boundaries and will probably be responsible for all new innovations & eventually the 3rd generation of eboards.
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Yuuuuuuup! Exactly. 1234567891011121314151617181920
Evolve uses 18650, I thought?
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Sorry to be superficial again, but dang those boards are ugly. No matter what their performance, ya gotta agree that the gen 2s - the Kickstarters - all look like just normal longboard. No boxes bolted on, no B.F.M. (as Onloop eloquently expressed) hanging off the back (so THAT’s what a kicktail is supposed to be for ;-)).
So Generation 3 is what? All the power of a DIY board and all the looks of a KS? Let’s call 'em DIYKS ! No wait, let’s not.
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Evolve Carbon has a 37V 10Ah LiPo-battery - I assume the others use LIPO, but i don’t know for sure.
more detail here: Evolve Carbon AT with 50km+ range | Endless Sphere DIY EV Forum
I moved 3 posts to an existing topic: Eboards of the Future 2030 - What Tech & Features will be common?
Onloop, why do all those photos show cooling vanes on batteries and DIY ones always do without? Is it to bleed off excess energy from regen overcharging?
the heat sinks are on the speed control not the batteries. DIY boards also have heat sinks on the speed control, maybe just not as large.
It’s not actually the battery… its the ESC that has the heat sink! I assume they need it Because the ESCs are very low tech… i suppose the mosfets are tiny & underspec’d, so they must run fairly hot… heat is generated from inefficiency.
The vesc is a perfect example of how Open Source DIY tech is leading the way… it runs so cool the mosfets don’t need any heat sink at all… rarely would they reach 80 degrees and that’s without heat sink… of course it you start pushing it with high amps it might warm up a little bit more… but it is extremely over engineered so that doesn’t happen.
Well my cheap boards made it two years without issue. HK LiPos, HK150A ESCs (ditched the fans) and HK SK3 motors. Due to smart gearing I haven’t had a single issue … Until I put on a new 3D printed case, did some rewiring and stupid managed to flick or drip solder onto the under side of my ESCs … poof. I still have no idea how that happened but I think I would still be going if not for that.
So I got about 2000km, as light a dual Boosted for under $700 AUD - doesn’t seem like false economy to me 
But now they are dead and I can get VESC for the same price as a HK150A I will have switched with the next release. Looking forward to the improvements it supposedly will bring.
I think it can work with hobby parts, but it’s not always the case if you’re looking at it from a quality perspective. And it’s even becoming worse. I’m using them myself and it’s ok until now.
But there is another point about the hobby parts: they were never intended to be used for human transportation. Nobody who developed those parts was ever assuming that people are going to sit or even stand on a RC car setup! Of course it works with some tricks, but at the end I am risking my live when parts fail on high speed or with traffic around me.
So that’s the reason for my new project: an eBoard with no hobby parts and specifically designed for my purpose of ebording. There are solutions out there where hobby parts have been strengthened to cope with the aim to use them for skateboarding and Jason is part of this too. That’s going to be more expensive of course - but that’s worth it if it’s affecting my (or my kids) health.
We are still in the at the beginning of this journey and maybe at a point where eBikes were some 15 years ago…
@roller I know the feeling man I popped my first ESC by strapping a camera to it. must have put too much pressure or something?? the 2nd ESC Is still going strong though. I did the same thing with my second ESC HK150 with fan ditched.
@elkick the Irony is that NONE of these parts are actually designed to be on skateboards. so you say that you are making a build with no hobby parts. but as you say all the parts sold for e-boards are just higher spec hobby parts.
the fact that we use outrunners on every board is testament to this. idealy we wouldnt want the can to spin. (i know outrunners are currently the best for the job,) but a compact and solid inrunner would be much better in terms of dirt contamination and mounting options. and the VESC is a mild exception. it has been designed around being able to handle the electrical current and needs of a skateboard. so yes logicaly its designed for skateboard, but physically… its an SMD PCB! these are never going to withstand the shock and vibration of a board. Ideally it needs to be mounted inside a sold resin block or something. ( hmm maybe i’ll do that)
Don’t take this the wrong way I’m not saying that the skateboard products are bad. I’m this saying this “designed for hobby” or “designed for skate” talk is a bit crap. they are one in the same. (albeit improved spec)
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I still think this blows everything out of proportion…
IMO RC Parts are a perfect solution for a DIY Electric Skateboard.
What do you guys think all these production boards have… Similar RC Hobby Parts sure they are spec’d for electric skateboards.
But there’s a reason why we use RC parts… Simply because they are much smaller and have a ton of power and they have been the best solution for the job.
There’s no need to slap an 80mm motor to an electric skateboard or use a motor just because it’s not an RC motor.
My first board 6374 SK3 motor has lasted well over 2000 miles and is still kicking… I doubt that motor will ever die on me. This is with 2 set screws only and no keyway… The entire shaft doesn’t even sit through the entire pulley. It climbs 30% inclines, the setup never gets hot and it runs well.
If your parts are dying, your setup is just inefficient (incorrect gearing, not enough power, not enough motor, stressing the setup too much, going cheap, trying to climb 30% inclines with your single motor, letting your setup cog.)
Boosted is using similar motors, Marbel is using similar motors, Inboard, etc.
An RC motor is simply a BLDC outrunner motor… Just because it’s used for RC doesn’t mean that it’s not capable of the weight and stress of a human body.
We’re also using large airplane 50mm and 63mm motors and these large airplane’s aren’t little.
The main benefit to purchasing a Electric Skateboard purposed motor is simply the benefit of a motor sole purpose to be used for an electric skateboard. Longer motor shafts, Longer key ways, better bearings, better rotors things that you won’t find on a typical RC hobby motor because they don’t need it.
But if the price isn’t too far off… All those benefits/features are well worth the cost considering if you got it machined it would cost you the same price + time + headache + probably a lot more than just buying it outright.
So IMO, RC Parts are great for DIY Electric Skateboard on a budget but if you can afford the cost. RC parts specifically made for a DIY Electric Skateboard are well worth the cost.
Not to mention that… well… captain obvious moment here… electric skateboards are RC electric vehicles. You just happen to be standing on them. They have to be Radio Controlled because a tethered controller is a safety hazard. Bluetooth, analog, hacked console components… its all Radio.
Buying decision should be based on benefits analysis
Pros & Cons is the most logical approach:
PROS OF CUSTOM MADE ESK8 PARTS
- Easy installation, time is money.
- Tried & Tested, less garage time - more riding!
- Standardisation, best practice solutions become mainstream.
- Better warranty & product support.
- Over time, due to economy of scale, prices will actually lower.
- Products made with fail safe features. Such as; Fuses, Current Limiting, Battery Management Systems, low voltage cut off, high voltage cutoff, temperature sensors, rpm limits.
- High voltage (hobby ESC stops at 6S). More torque, lower amps, less heat, better for battery longevity - High voltage has no real disadvantages.
- Slimmer components (batteries & esc). There is limited space under a skateboard. To avoid scraping components on ground.
- Asthetics, custom parts allow you to make a better looking home built board.
- Eventually will be plug & play. Modules that just attach & go.
CONS OF CUSTOM MADE ESK8 PARTS
- Higher cost.
- Limited availability.
- Limited choices.
- Few supplier’s.
- Online purchase only. (Some people like shops)
- Some parts (Vesc) require some knowledge to program and setup… eventually will be plug and play though.
@claudiofiore88 My trouble free config was 168KV, 16T to 30T and I weigh about 89Kg. I now run 260KV dual on the same gearing. I’d rather gear it down but just playing with something else at the moment and haven’t had the time to code the CNC config to do a new pulley.