Are you serious? Do you really believe that there is an area of longboarding where a rough feeling ride and having less traction and control “is a pretty minor thing”? That is whacked. The essence of longboarding is a great feeling ride.
Shortboarders endure the horrible feeling wheels and trucks that don’t turn and the 14.5" wheelbases that forces you stand in a (relatively) unstable position because doing a flip trick is their holy grail and they need “landing gear” more than something that goes fast and is stable and comfortable at speed. They will try and ollie or kickflip your electric board and when they fail they’ll tell you your board sucks. Popsicle stick flip trick decks are great at what they’re designed to do. But they can’t even come close to a longboard when it comes to enjoying nice carves, cruising, commuting, and cornering at speed.
And although I’m not the only downhiller who rides and electric skateboard, only a small percentage of the builders here know what it’s like to do over 60mph on a skateboard, or streetluge, or buttboard, in packs and on roads where you have to decelerate down to 20mph just to make the turn. And those who have know what I know - that many/most of the requirements of a high-performance electric skateboarding are those that are required in downhill. You need the confidence that comes from stability, traction, and control, and/or the ability to drift under control. You’re not always going fast, but when you are, you want to be under control. When the ass end of your board is hitting imperfections and dancing around on its own, you aren’t in control. And not unlike downhill boards, when things get out of control on an electric skateboard, it’s rarely easy to it them back under control. They can’t counter-steer. They are brutally unforgiving. You’re a split second from eating shit at any given moment. This is why we are able to beat our cheats are act like total death-defying studs. We manage to overcome all of the inherent deficiencies in a small-wheeled lean-steer vehicle. And that counts. We want recognition. But let’s be honest here. We don’t need to add to the deficiencies so that we can beat our chests harder. Do you really want to be the only guy on a hard-tailed mountain bike when the terrain demands a full suspension bike? Do you want telemark skis on a slalom course or for downhill? They have a place in the skiing world, just not where the fastest of the fast meet up.
I fully understand that there is this thing called “good enough for most casual consumers” and that good enough is good enough. But I think that it’s a bit reckless and maybe even dangerous to put a ton of power into something that can’t stay in control of at high speed.
I’ve been riding my Carvon hubs and the thane is pretty thin except for the outer edge. For just straight riding around town. It’s not bad at all, even at higher speeds. The ride is a little rougher since our streets suck here, but it’s not unstable in the least bit. I’d prefer full thickness, but hubs offer a ride feel that I like even with the compromise. Of course I’ll be upgrading to the V3’s when they come out so I won’t have to anymore. If you’re carving hard, the outer lip has full thickness and deforms enough to keep hold so I’m all good. The full thickness outer edge is the reason I went with Carvon hubs. For the casual rider, or short commuter, if you’re not carving hard, have smooth streets, hubs with thinner thane is not all that bad.
9 out of 10 esk8ers I meet on the street have never skated before and are doing just fine going in straight lines in the 12-18mph range. I’m not saying there isn’t a lot of us that require a lot more from our boards, but from what I see, we are at a minority compared to those out there buying pre-made boards. Just think about the success Enertion has had selling their Raptor 2. Anyone who is an experienced skater who pushes their abilities would look at the thickness of the thane at the edge and see how that wouldn’t work as well as full thickness thane once you enter into a hard carve or that it won’t cushion rough pavement. Still they are selling very very well. Think about how many boards Boosted is selling. High speeds on a flexible deck??
I’m not saying having full thickness thane isn’t important and we shouldn’t be demanding better quality and safety from those who manufacture boards. I’m just saying that most esk8ers from what I see, are not doing anything on their boards where hubs with thinner thane wouldn’t be good enough. “good enough for most casual consumers” is the key. That includes practically zero of us. Putting tons of power into something you can’t control at high speeds. Yes, I agree that’s reckless, but that doesn’t mean a hub with thin thane isn’t good enough to tool around the city, get to class, or skate around the path on the weekends.
Moonlight is pretty dull and I guess you are to I am 64 and I want to carve as hard as my knees n Bones will let me! I ride my sk8 for the adrenaline.i don’t get a lot of adrenaline having my fillings vibrate out my teeth,i have never ran up to my bud and said wow did you see the bogus carve get real, I know my bro,s we don’t settle for ok it’s about finding what really works an perfecting it
The V2 or V2.5 carvon hubs you have ride much much better than all the other hubs that have been available thus far. U were already riding the best hubs on the market. If you tried the other hub motors on the market like jacobs or any of the chinese boards you’d realize what everyone else is saying is true. The vibration is really intense, almost unbearable for more than a few mins at a time.
Interesting point. I’ve only been riding Carvon’s.
When I’ve taken my hubs apart, the thane is pretty thin except for the small section at the end. So for the most part, I’m riding on the thin thane like other hubs. You definitely feel the difference between the thin thane and full thickness when you ride. On the Carvon’s it’s a very noticeable difference, but it’s not bad. I didn’t think others would feel all that different if you weren’t carving. Especially with all the claims everyone makes. As for being the best hubs on the market, I hear a lot of people claiming their’s are better, but I chose Carvon’s because I like having that full thickness outer edge when carving hard. Plus Jerry is cool as f*ck.
It could be that small bit out outer edge that makes all the difference or it could be the quality of everything else on the Carvon’s on top of that. Either way, for the most part, I’m not riding on full thickness thane, so there has to be some sort of midpoint or compromise where it’s good enough for most riders. It’s not all about thinner thane not making the cut, because it does work on the Carvon hubs. There’s a clear difference and my setup with full thickness 90’s grips better, has a smoother ride, and can hold an edge better, but the Carvon’s with less thane still rides pretty nice.
I hope I’m still skating hard when I’m 64. You give me hope that I got a couple decades left!!
@psychotiller2h
“What?! So running esk8s at downhil speeds you should have different expectations from your components? This is where experience comes in to play…”
I’m saying that most people don’t ride their esk8’s at downhill speeds. Even the top production esk8’s out there top out around 24mph in ideal conditions. Consistently going 25-35mph+ on a skate is a different ballgame and beyond the capabilities of most esk8’s.
Aren’t Carvon’s essentially just flywheels mounted on the motor? This would give you the same thane as anyone else running flywheels on satellite configs.
The carvons feel good because the duro is pretty low and the thane is in tack. Just went for a ride with 4wd of the v2 carvons. Floating on clouds in my book.
The wide wheel hummie and I are going to use might also help with the feeling, as the contact patch is much larger. The front wheels will be an abec centrax wheel
@Mrmoonlight I agree in part, the Carvon V2’s werent nearly as good as the 97mm Abec 11’s on my Carbin GT but yhey ride much much better than the onan X2, the original jacob hubs and the pair of 70mm chinese hubs I bought and thats not while carving, thats just rolling. I think it does have to do with the full thickness thane on the ends because my Torqueboards hubs have a similar full thickness section and they also roll pretty smooth.
I lose about half the thickness of thane on my 90’s. They are bored out to roughly a mm before the outer edge of where the outside bearing sit. They ride nice.
On the left is what you get when you ride a Carvon V3, the middle is a V2 (59mm hub motor in some of the wheel), and what I imagine a 63mm diameter x 74mm wide hub motor is in a 90mm wheel. Urethane depth printed in each cross section.
Actually, you lose less than a third (7 % 22.5) of the urethane for some, but not all, of the wheel. Jerry’s design intent was to preserve as much urethane as he could, and he did that even more so in the V3.
Agree 100% Chris, any consumer reading this should be very worried about keeping control & riding safely!
They should choose a hub motor fully enclosed & protected by urethane that offers maximum ground clearance.
Streeting your face at 60mph because a half-inch-pebble destroys your exposed motor, that is fully exposed & positioned just a few mm from the ground, is very hefty price to pay for an extra few mm of Thane
@ChrisChaput I think you are a super passionate guy who loves making high-quality skate stuff, you know your shit, that is undeniable! However, I think you need to step back a bit, your walls of text about why your wheels are superior to everything else is becoming hard to swallow.
You are clearly biased, you have a business that needs to sell wheels & you are now in bed with carvon.
Please take a breath and listen to the consumer and maybe you will learn something too.
Or you can just do what Carvon is already doing which is to put a protective band of urethane around the OD of the direct drive motor which is spinning at the identical rate as that rotating mass of urethane that I call a wheel which, btw, was designed to be a skateboard wheel and not a hub motor cover.
Jerry has already gone through a number of design iterations and has some pretty clever solutions to what some may only see as a problem. Maybe when his crew goes to grind at the skatepark (the holy grail of electric skateboarding) it won’t make a gnarly enough grinding noise and this will be thought to be very uncool by the local hipsters.
My sprocket bottomed out on the log I was trying to ride over on my mountain bike. Should I throw the bike away or maybe not try and ride over sideways logs?
And you are clearly biased as well! I think your just 2 passionate dudes that are standing at different ends of a mountain.
You claim your hubs are superior every day! Why can’t he do the same? “Practice what you preach!” You also claim a “110% performance guarentee” but then charge a 20% restocking fee and make the buyer pay return shipping? Not to mention everywhere you bloat about the FOCBOX being “open source” when you don’t even release the design files? Just some PDF’s?
I call a spade a spade and I think everyone needs to take a breath here.
