That’s absolutely correct, and that’s the issue and why the Vendor Bashing policy exists. Right or Wrong, pissed off or calm, true or bullshit…it always turns into a crap storm with no discernable goals and a negative result. I wish it were otherwise, but thems the facts 
.
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This discussion could achieve the same goals and move further from vendor bashing just by changing tone. The core of it seems to be “how I think this business could improve”. I wish people would realize feedback is heard much better when it isn’t framed as an insult.
Another issue is just that even in this discussion we don’t really have all the information on someone else business, so it would be difficult or impossible to give useful advice here without that information. Granted when you talk higher level strategies I suppose those may still be relevant. Beyond that the best you can achieve is just to give feedback “Your website needs an update” is useful. “We really want this product you discontinued” is also useful, but adding a bunch of negative baggage in with your message doesn’t really add anything beyond that.
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Here I thought I was making casual observations of shared perceptions.
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Discussions like this need to avoid specific complaints about single orders. Broad discussion about a company’s tradgectory is fair game as long as it’s respectful. I thought OP was a good start, but it devolved.
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We’ve all been angry at vendors at one point or another, but at the same time innovation wouldn’t happen without them. My feelings will always be mixed, there will always be good and bad. Just remember the good. I just bought my first products from Trampa after refusing to purchase anything for a while due to the VESC fiasco. We’ll see how it goes - I’m always trying to be more open minded. It’s also worth mentioning that Trampa’s main purpose is MTB anyways so idk what portion of sales is with E-products but it’s probably not the main priority.
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In the spirit of balance, my ProDrive arrived from @trampa this weekend. Although the batteries are yet to arrive, on first inspection it’s a thing of beauty. Workmanship can’t be faulted and the order, payment and shipment went smooth as honey even though I changed the order after I paid.
And I’m in love with that brand-new smell. Wow.
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I can’t complaint much, @trampa was/is being so helpful through out my 1st build (HS11 Holypro) and currently im on my 2nd build - Orrsom. With their full support and fast reply i can give them credits. EXCEPT for the discontinuity of HS11 deck, it will be a problem if i need a deck replacement in the future.
What @trampa is doing is good a small, very specific business. If you want to build a rugged mountain board, buy from them. They are on track to stay that way. What you guys are all saying would make sense to a business trying to expand, however I’m not sure if that is what Frank wants
Back to the branding thing though. They have a boutique brand with boutique price point. I am always tempted to consider a boutique product knowing that I will pay a lot to get a lot. That is ok with people. In respect to marketing and where I think Trampa misses out is convenience. I would like to go ahead and purchase a complete board from Trampa but charging it is an inconvenience. These days every other brand of board comes ready to go. Unbox, charge it and ride. Commuters or weekend cruisers like myself don’t want to pay big bucks for a DIY charging system I might as well DIY the whole thing. I understand Lipo and BMS and shipping and quality and the size of the business limited capital available but maybe that’s what they need to do. They invested in VESC they could consider investing in making dedicated battery with BMS. Maybe two or three different sizes. BOOM. But still price is pretty overwhelming next to Lacroix and Zill… Heck I could buy three Bamboo GT all terrain evolves for one Trampa
Carbon fiber, titanium, aluminium, vesc6, knowledge, innovation…I do not think they are expensive for what you receive…Comparing Trampa against another brand just for the battery option…I do not agree with that…My experience was amazing, from buying to every day use…Also, I purchased pulleys, tires, bolts…Every time I trusted them to send the items to a hotel in some place of the world, to different people, because my country customs are a mess…I did all of that always at the last moment, within a few days to buy and get the package… I am not an engineer, limited with my English skills, etc… I have an amazing board, with Lipos…I believe there is no other company thats supply such a product and experience… If a guy like me can buy from their web site, get what I want, get the board to run, buy my battery choice, fix anything…any one can do it…
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Funny thing is when I first got into the hobby, I really wanted to get a trampa. I agree with goonman about the battery solution. That really turned me off. I then found this forum and just went full diy…
The prices for a complete are actually very good. I just ordered a complete mountainboard for 2200€ including all taxes (I told them I did not need the Graupner charger). For you guys in the USA it would cost 1830€ as you don’t have to pay any tax as far as I know. The 12s7q 30Q battery will cost me another 400€ in materials. That’s a total of 2600€ for their most expensive board with foot bindings and two carry bags.
We are currently looking at how much it would cost to import a Lacroix. The cost including shipping is 2330€. If you add at least 30% taxes (just VAT is 24%) it will end up costing 3030€.
We are still looking at importing one as the lacroix kills it but things are not always as they seem.
Now the battery thing actually sucks but I can understand their reasoning and honestly with all these packs catching fire from time to time, if it was my company I would do the same thing to get rid of the biggest liability in an esk8.
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TBH I hadn’t priced up Lacroix just going on hear say. I know evolve isn’t in the same league but they do run lipo and BMS and charge from a “regular” charger. I myself haven’t heard of any fires from them. You can have a charger at home one at work easy peasy. Convenience is a luxury. I can understand having to buy your own battery but having to use a hobby charger is the deal breaker I reckon.
Since I will be building my own battery I will include a BMS and charge port so I will not have to use a hobby charger.
I agree with you on convenience, just saying there are solutions.
The Evolve GT costs 1490€ + shipping so it is more like you could buy 2 for the price of 1 (not 3). Still the evolve battery sucks balls and should not even be brought up in the same discussion with a Lacroix and Trampa.
The Trampa website is confusing and it took me a lot more time than it should to understand all the different options. They should really change it at some point but I guess as with every thing in life you have to put priorities and their focus is probably somewhere else right now.
On the other hand I placed the order for a complete mountainboard and it was shipped 2 days after 
Are you kidding me? 2 days from ordering to shipping for a completely custom esk8 with dozens of various options? Most vendors take more time to answer their email.
I have not received the board yet so can’t comment on their quality or after sales service. Just putting out my experience with them.
So far I have ordered many things from a lot of vendors. Some have been less than ok, some were ok and some where awesome (@psychotiller).
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Yeah wow. Ok that’s pretty good service, I’m sure you will be happy with Trampa. I’m in Oz and evolve is $1500aud delivered.
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I get your point here but all comparisons aside, when you say I bought a production board for €2200 without a battery, bms or charger… that sounds pretty steep.
It is. Do you have a cheaper equally good alternative to propose?
Probably not! That’s an issue as well I suppose.
I get frustrated with Trampa, I just don’t understand the business model. There’s a lot of small improvements that could be made to a quite polished product. There’s also a lot of marketing and brand image changes that are really desperately needed.
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https://www.google.de/search?client=safari&hl=de-de&biw=375&bih=635&ei=MqreW4SWDcGssgHBsLmICg&ins=false&q=evolve+skateboard+caught+fire&oq=evolve+skateboard+caught+fire&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.3...20121.23933..24310...0.0..0.84.688.11…0…1…35i304i39j30i10j33i10.7qNdfW-dBo8
Just a 2min search… seems there have been already some boards on fire. If it was the fault of the production or the fault of the user (shitty battery upgrade etc.) idk, but it’s also not so easy as producer to proof that it was not your fault. If the customer blames you, you need to stay in for it… i totally understand @trampa that they not going to take that risk and troubles. Plus, if you seriously into e mountainboarding you don’t need a battery unter the deck. The top mount battery boxes are ideal (mybe not the best looking) but you look for performances and here they just do there job. If it’s too much troubles to take out 2-4lipos after each ride and hook them up to your balance charger than just get a charge only bms and wire that up. It’s not a big deal and you can use your laptop brick charger after. With the orrsom or urban carve it‘s a different story, though. But here too, there are a lot of guys over here which can make you a battery pack (flexible or not) for a good price. Probably even more cheap than trampa could ever offer them on there website. You more flexible in choosing the right pack for your purpose. Some want to have a light pack some want crazy range with 20700 cells etc… I think that would be really too much to offer also a custom made battery service.
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@billappleton I think that the problem is that people want to use a board that was designed for mountainboarding and dirt trails and try to do 50mph on the road. On a few occasion I have read Frank trying to discourage people to ride at those speeds (I think he suggested 35mph but i can’t recall the exact number). There have been some solutions to make those boards more stable at higher speeds with custom parts or parts adapted from motorcycles.
Kaly has done a lot to make their brand so popular in the US on the esk8 scene, I don’t know how many Kaly boards are cruising around NYC now but judging by instragram, it must be a lot.
I don’t presume to know what they think but it may not have been how trampa wanted their product to be used. They make moutainboards and they are good at it from what I can read from the few people that actually use those boards for that purpose here.
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