Hub Motor & Urethane Riding Qualities

I think he was referring to the upcoming super fly 107mm wheels. The inside of that wheel will be the same distance from the hub as the 97,90,83,76 mm flywheels.

The whole point of the newer (narrower) 107mm SuperFly is that you CAN put them on just about any board that fits an 83mm, 90mm, or 97mm Flywheel. If you don’t design an idler pulley or a belt housing correctly, the increased diameter of a 107mm wheel could create some clearance issues, but the 107mm Superfly is narrow enough (on the inside edge) to fit just about anything where the really wide original 107mm Centerset Flywheel wouldn’t.

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Carvon v3’s and 4’s aren’t in the wheel. They are Direct drive. There are no limitations to the motor diameter they can use in relation to the urethane. The wheels sit next to the motor. What you just outlined though is the absolute reason why hubmotors arent ever going to be an equal contender to belt driven setups. They may work, but they don’t work well.

Neither the 13mm depth nor the 16mm depth will run smoothly. An 83mm Flywheel on a 45mm hub has 19mm of urethane depth and most people are upgrading to 90mm or 97mm wheels to get even more. And since just about every hub motor you’d consider using is 50mm or more, and that you’d want to “sleeve” the urethane which adds even more to the hub diameter, what you’re proposing will always ride way rougher than a 76mm Flywheel. Not good.

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Personal note for me. LOL… Check back in 2-3 years to remind you how wrong you were :slight_smile:

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Ok. We’ll re-visit this! :joy:

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Im referring to the new set of 107mm that will work. Coming soon from what Ive heard

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I don’t get what the fascination of pikes peak is all about?

there are some builders/vendors who haven’t even shown a single video of their offerings going up a regular hill…

Yes, that’s right, just a hill, any hill…

I think it’s important to remember most esk8ers are not competing for a gold medal in a down hill race event.




Here is some independent user feedback about Raptor 2 hub motor & ride quality.

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Ride quality does matter.

“. super smooth when going through road cracks and imperfections …”

Super smooth COMPARED TO WHAT? If you set your expectations super, super low or only compare the feeling to other hub motor wheels or to smaller China clone urethane wheels, then perhaps you can exceed expectations.

And this ridiculous notion that nice, smooth, fast wheels that feel great, stay in control, last a long time, and inspire confidence while riding are only good for competitive downhill or street luge is just plain ignorant. Those are EXACTLY the qualities that just about EVERY longboard skateboard, motorized or not, is looking for in a wheel. If it’s great for racing and you can attach a pulley to it, it’s more than likely great for electric skateboards. But the opposite doesn’t follow. If a wheel sucks for racing, why would one think that it’s great for electric skateboards? Tolerable, maybe. Great … not a chance in hell. If huge rims and a small amount of rubber was great for racing cars, you’d see dragsters and funny cars and Formulas One cars and Indy cars and Stock Cars and go karts using huge rims and a little rubber. None of them do.

Why would sticking a huge hard object in the middle of a skateboard wheel make the wheel better, and how could that wheel feel better? I suppose if you simply deny objective reality, deny science, deny physics, and deny common sense, then putting a thin band urethane around a relatively huge hard object feels smoother/better than a generous amount of urethane around a significantly smaller object.

Designing products for other people means weighing the pros and cons and making choices, many of of which include compromises. Rarely is it the case that you can have your cake and eat it too. You try to find a balance and mitigate the downside to any tough choice that you have to make on behalf of your customers. You have made the choice to use hub motors. A fair number of people on the planet are going to be totally okay with that choice. But let’s not pretend that “hub motors” are the perfect choice, or the only high tech choice, or the best choice, or a choice that comes without any baggage. Your choice is acceptable to many. Be happy. Work it. Sell it.

Your choice isn’t acceptable to me. I require more of a wheel. I’m willing to live with a slightly less efficient transmission of power and I’m fine with having motors that live outside of a wheel. I don’t pretend that mine is a perfect choice, bit I’m more than willing to work within it. I want to be able to have a choice of a large number of wheel diameters, wheel widths, urethane depths, and pulley sizes so that I can dial in the amount of torque and top speed and maneuverability in handling different conditions, on the road and off. Belts and pulleys have worked great for me and I think that there is still a lot of room for improvement. And just because someone sticks a motor in a hub and claims that he is king of the road doesn’t suddenly mean that belts and pulleys are antiquated or low tech dinosaurs. That notion is both dismissive and condescending.

I know what smooth is and isn’t. And just because my idea of a great wheel doesn’t align itself with your marketing strategy doesn’t mean that my decades of experience in wheel design is somehow suddenly invalid or limited only to downhill racing. Take your product to market. Be happy. Let others pursue their happiness doing their boards their way. Full disclosure … on the record … my shit stinks.

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@onloop Would you be able to say what urethane thickness you use on the raptor 2 wheels with the hub motors?

Plenty of fast cars have big rims & rubber bands

http://buyersguide.caranddriver.com/media/assets/submodel/6873.jpg

Radical SR8 Holds record for fastest nurburgring lap

ALSO, the fastest skateboard wheel in the world is only 76mm - tiny compared to your ABEC11 offerings

Maybe Venom know something about wheels that you don’t?

It’s not a good comparison to compare car wheels to skateboard wheels. You’re arguing that thicker wheels are better on skateboard because they’re better on a car, but like @onloop said, that’s not necessarily true.

Since skateboard wheels act as suspension to make the ride “smooth” they have to be thick. However, car wheels have suspension on them that helps them maintain contact with the road when they hit bumps. Skateboards do not. So making that comparison between cars and skateboards isn’t really valid, for reasons that you noted earlier when you talked about the problems the BMW skateboard had.

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If that’s true and 107mm flywheels will work on v3…than I don’t even have any questions. That will be just massive !! v3 all the way then !!

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If you place the motor to the side of the wheel, ground clearance is the big issue. You would want the motor to be as big as possible in reference to the wheel diameter anyway. The same efficiency issue applies. The only advantage is better cooling of the inefficient, potentially overheating motor. Again: limited to smooth and even surfaces. People do get impacts on their regular hangers already. This is why I don’t believe to much in the concept of placing the motor to the side of the wheel. If the motor is outside the wheel, you can use a belt drive and place the motor in a much better position + have the benefits of gearing. I don’t have any issues with the belts (15mm wide). Two years of usage without any service of the belt drive. A quality, premium belt lasts very very long.

Frank

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It is noted air inflated car tyres act as a slight dampening over road cracks buts it’s like nothing to the car, but I can feel it. I should not be butting in. It’s true there are fast cars with big rims and rubber band wheel thickness, but much thought has gone into consideration why a car gets the tyres and rims they get.

Evolve did a video of them going up the steepest hill on the planet in New Zealand, Posted to youtube.

I can see where this discussion is going. The decision to make wheels that are good enough and wheels above good enough. This comparison is like those Buzzed Feed food videos where 3 guys go to 3 selectively chosen food places at 3 price points base on one topic be it eggs, burritos, or pasta. The choice is purely subjective. The topic is “Hub Motor & Urethane Riding Qualities.” Riding quality is subjective from person to person. Leaving aside the many technicalities of a street tyre and race tyre or durometer of urethane wheels.

I cannot attest to the urethane quality of Onloop’s products because I do not have a set and do not know who makes them. With ABEC11 I can because I kind of know who pours them from online forums discussing which manufacturer pours for the longboard wheel companies. Even though, I would still want the best wheels I can afford. I’m already biased for ABEC11’s because they got their urethane formulation the right characteristics

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While the point you make about ground clearance is valid, during actual use I havent seen this be a real problem. Between my two Carvon boards over the last year and hundreds of miles Ive never sustained any substantial damage to the rotors, just little nicks. Also note that the rotors have always had a protective(replaceable) metal sleeve over them. The newest version adds a second urathane layer on top of the steel sleeve for additional rotor protection.

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I’m still trying to figure what this special material is that everyone is calling “premium”. Seems they are putting it in everything these days?

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