Pneumatic setup: Psychotiller SixShooter wheels / Treenutter Mas deck / 2x Torqueboards 190kv 6355 motors / 10s4p battery with 30Q cells

ESK8 Builds
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Here is my pneumatic setup, which will be very similar to @mmaner’s build. (The main difference is that I am going to build a bigger 10s4p battery pack.)

Parts:

@psychotiller’s 6x2 SixShooter wheels 2x @psychotiller’s Ripba motor mounts 195mm Paris trucks (V2, 50 degrees) Red Ember (@treenutter) Caldera deck Edit: Decided to use Red Ember (@treenutter) Mas dec 2x 190kv 6355 Torqueboards motors & 16T motor pulleys 2x VESC (either Focbox or Axle VESC) 10S4P battery pack with 30Q cells XT90S antispark key BMS (have not decided which one) Enclosure (possibly space cell, need to decide)

Gear ratio: 16/60

More details:

(1) I’ve already got @psychotiller’s wheels & motor mounts. The delivery was super fast. The parts look gorgeous. They seem to be high quality and precision made. Also they are quite light.

(2) @treenutter says that he has a queue of people who preordered decks, and he can start working on my deck only in a month or so. I guess I have to wait for it.

(3) I’ve used Torqueboards motors before and they work fine.

(4) Battery: I am going to build a 10S4P pack myself using 30Q cells. I’ve got an Arduino spot welder, and last year I’ve built a battery pack for my Loaded Vanguard. It was a lot of fun to spot weld the cells.

(5) VESC: I have a pair of new Axle VESCs, which I could use. I also like Enertion’s Focbox (aka VESC-X). The latter has a heatsink, a protective case, and a form factor which makes them easier to fit into the enclosure. I’ve successfully used Focbox’s but I have not used Axle VESC’s.

Does anybody have comments on reliability of Focbox vs Axle VESC? Are they pretty much comparable?

(6) I would like to minimize the number of electronic components in my board. My theory is that the less electronic components the board has, the smaller the chance that a component fails while riding.

This means that

(a) I’ll use XT90S plug instead of electronic antispark switch. (b) I will NOT use a fuse. © I will NOT use a BMS for discharge.

I think that these choices are better for safety. Maybe in this setup there is a higher chance to burn VESC. (One needs to be extra careful not to short circuit anything.) But my safety is more important than VESC. Any comments or opinions about it?

(7) Enclosure. I might use a space cell enclosure. But I am also considering the fiberglass 12S enclosure from @Eboosted http://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/loaded-vanguard-and-never-summer-reaper-enclosures-for-sale/17137/112

Does anybody know how well it would fit the Caldera deck?

(8) BMS. I’ll be using a BMS only for charging the battery. But I need to decide which one.

People here say good things about Bestech or Battery Support BMS. But they are huge, and will not fit into the enclosure.

In my Vanguard build I used this cheap $10 BMS (suggested by @Eboosted):

@Eboosted says that they work fine for him. I have mixed feelings about it. The first one stopped working after a week. I’ve ordered a new one, which seems to work Ok so far. Also it took very long time for it to arrive from China.

To tell the truth, I’ve been mostly using my Vanguard board without a BMS. I was using a 10S balance changer to charge it. I kind of like this solution, because I can easily monitor the cells. But I needed to open the enclosure every time when I charged the board, which was a pain.

So I need to either

(a) Find a small and relatively reliable BMS (for charging only), or

(b) Find a clean and waterproof way to make charging port and balance connectors for charging with a balance charger without opening the enclosure.

Has anybody found a good solution to (b)?

Do you have other suggestions for a small BMS (for charge only setup)?

Actually, Enertion’s space cell battery uses a BMS which is even smaller than the one linked above (and probably costs below $10). It should be easier to fit in the enclosure.

Do you know what BMS the space cell uses and where to get it?

Any other comments and suggestions?

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You could use a couple of these :

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132279467307

gx16 connectors, cant seem to find a 10pin one :frowning:

And the metal waterproof cap is good:

you can get them with a rubber link instead of the chain

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9DEA5E91-763B-4787-A7B7-AC7108B762EC.jpeg4096×2304 2 MB

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Nice build, but stupid logic, don’t skip the fuse, in case of problems it can at least increase the chances of saving your board, you, your house or more important the ones you love, people vastly underestimate the amount of energy stored in the battery’s we use and the damage they can make

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I would use a 15 pin VGA connector, female on the board side. Mine has been a great board, you will live it :blush:.

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I was thinking a lot about a fuse for my previous build, but finally decided not to use it. Let me explain why.

With XT90S plug, when the board in not in use (the plug is unplugged) the battery is totally disconnected from the board. It is as safe as storing your battery separate from the board in a fireproof container. The fuse will do nothing because it is simply not in the circuit.

Now if the XT90S plug is plugged in and you are riding the board… Imagine that you are going really fast and the board suddenly becomes uncontrollable. This can happen if

(a) Your VESC burns (b) Your fuse burns.

If you have no fuse, then (b) is impossible. So your chances of survival are higher.

To see that this is not an imaginary possibility, but this really happens, check out what @Jinra wrote here:

This convinced me not to use a fuse.

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i’d just use a fuse for charging.

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Agree. Fuse for charging makes sense.

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I don’t use a fuse either as a general rule. I have a 60a on my 6s build, but that’s just in case of thermal runaway. Prolly won’t help that either. I’d rather burn up a vesc that have my board lock up at 25mph.

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I have the same logic.

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Thanks. I’ll check out these connectors.

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Thanks for the pointer about a VGA connector. I’ll give it a thought. I did some search and found that people typically use a VGA connector in 6S builds. But I think that it will work equally well in a 10S build.

I might use the following ports for charging:

XT60 connector for the main battery leads + VGA connector for balance leads.

One can probably connect all leads to a single VGA connector. But I feel that a single VGA connector may not be able to handle higher amps (say, if I want to fast charge the battery at 6 amps). Balance leads don’t use a lot of amps, so VGA should be enough for them. So XT60 + VGA seems like a solid charging solution.

A quick question: Is there a waterproof cover for a VGA connector?

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Here is an 11 pin GX20-11 aviation plug that might work for balance wires

https://www.ebay.com/p/4-X-Aviation-Plug-20mm-11-Pins-Gx20-11-Male-Female-Panel-Metal-Wire-Connector/1366196583?iid=231636267408

It is circular, so it is easier to mount it on the enclosure than a VGA connector.

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More thoughts on BMS vs no BMS…

I think that the most versatile solution for charging is to use no BMS module integrated in the board but to make a balance port in the enclosure (using a VGA or an Aviation plug connector).

Pros: I can easily monitor the cells, charge, discharge at any current (slow charge, fast charge) etc., using a 10S balance charger.

Cons: (1) A 10S balance charger is expensive. (But I already have it.)

(2) The balance charger is bulkier and heavier than a small laptop-style power brick. It is harder to put it in a backpack and charge the board at work, etc.

(3) Instead of plugging in 1 plug, I need to plug in 2 plugs. This is really not a big deal.

Solution to 1 and 2. Take a small power brick and hot glue to it a cheap BMS. This will make a small portable balance charger. Basically, it will be charging through a BMS, but the BMS will not be inside the board but inside the charger.

Does anybody use this charging method?

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The 195mm paris truck will handle the pneumatic no problem?

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Yes, Ive don it, no issues. Just pay attention to clearance on your deck, make sure you dont have any wheel bite.

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I’ve just got Paris 195 trucks. Going to work on attaching Psychotiller motor mounts soon. The difference in diameters of trucks and mounts is very small, less than 1/2 mm I think. It might be enough just to sand the hanger a little bit.

Did you use sandpaper or a file for this?

Also, did you use any riser pads with Paris trucks to avoid wheel bite?

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@psychotiller Hey man what tires are these? And will they fit superstars?

I’d like to try pneumatics on superstars before I purchase another set of hubs… Just the trampa 6.5s aren’t out yet…7 is to big…6 would be preferable…

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They won’t fit superstar hubs. They are 6x2

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I used an end-mill to shape mine, but you could do it with a drill press and a little elbow grease.

Measure the depth of the mount and mark that measurement with a sharpie or better yet a scratch awl on the hanger, all the way around. Wrap the threaded end of the axle in paper, a lot of paper, then tape over it with electrical tape, a lot of tape. This is to keep from damaging the threads.

Then chuck the axle into a drill press with as much pressure as needed but not too much, you just want it to hold not deform the axle. Use some heavy grit sandpaper, like 50 grit or something, and wrap it around the place you want to shape and turn on the press. You will want to stop a lot and measure the diameter until it is correct, you want it to be tight.

If you find the sandpaper you are using is taking it down quick get to something close to the diameter you want then switch to a higher grit.

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