Raptor 2 Spare battery 10s4p how to charge? with and without bms?

I am in Australia so getting a lithium ion setup is a little more difficult to get if you don’t want to put it together yourself. As the 10s4p Raptor 2 spare battery pack is readily available in Australia i was hoping to use it on my dual 6374/focbox setup. The problem is i am not sure how to effectively charge it as it does not have a bms built in. From what i have read it can be charged using a charger and the cells should self balance. Is this correct? Also how would i go about doing this? eg what charger, what connectors to link charger to battery. As far as i am aware no one has actually used this particular pack on a diy yet, either with or without bms but if you have please let me know how you did it. Thanks heaps. To save you going to enertions site the specs are below:

The NEW Enertion S.P.A.C.E Cell Elite Spare Battery - Designed specifically for your Raptor 2

The battery is 10S4P - A total of 40 Cells, 4 Parallel groups of 10 cells in series.

Premium Quality Samsung 30Q Cells.

Battery Chemistry INR/NCA

432Wh pack. 4X greater capacity compared with market average.

36V nominal voltage

Total weight 2070 grams

Dimension of 370mm X 140mm X 22mm

Cells Only. No BMS inside this pack image

Hi Man,

A BMS is always optional. But I would always advise to get one to compliment the lifespan of your cells. Any 10S BMS will do. Could be that you need to reverse the BMS connector. But that’s not a really hard job to get done. Apart from that, this pack is as compact as a 10s4p can get.

Edit: if you would go for BMS-less. you’ll need a 42V 2A or 4A charger, remove the plug and install a XT60 connector

I forgot to mention if not using a bms i was going to set up the battery cut off in the focboxes to around 20% capacity stop it overdrawing the battery and then charge the battery up the around 85% of full capacity. Just not sure how i would charge the battery this way

If you just search “10S balance chargers” you’ll find ones that will allow you to balance charge, I don’t think just charging off of the main discharge leads without any cell levelling/balancing is a good idea.

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A decent BMS + charger is cheaper than a decent and respectable “balance” charger

Edit: search topics here if you’d want

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Now i see why most people use a bms

It seems a lot are using this bms Would this work: http://www.bestechpower.com/37v10spcmbmspcbforli-ionli-polymerbatterypack/PCM-D223V1.html

and if i hooked up this bms with the factory settings and a compatible 42v charger it would automatically balance my cells?

10S are pricier but not needing to carry your charge circuitry everywhere and have it constantly subject to vibrations is a plus. I use 2 5S lipos so it’s not as bad to get a couple cheap chargers and charge them separately and they connect in series in the enclosure on my board.

I was thinking of using lipos but i have a 17km two way commute to work (34km round trip) with hills so I would need 4x 8000mah 5s lipos to make the trip which in Australia cost the same as the raptor 2 pack. As i have read i will get better lifespan out of the lithium ion pack so i thought this would be the better option. What are your thoughts?

Thats (imho) a good BMS to have. Keep in mind, you can only order them per 2 as a B2C customer. Try finding someone to chime in, or a GB on this forum.

@wafflejock we’re talking lion here. both have pro’s and cons. But given the instabilty of lipo. I personally would not cheap out on chargers/ BMS.

iMax b6 is basically tried and tested and there have been people using lipos in rc hobbies for much longer than people have been hacking together their own 18650 based packs. Cheap doesn’t always mean bad. Regarding dangers I’ve seen far more 18650 based boards ablaze here than lipo based packs the extra fear makes us extra precautious about punctures.

Regarding range you need about 10Wh per km on average I can get 12 miles on most of 185Wh, so you may not need quite what you’re thinking also if you can plug it in at work or like I did get it up so swapping batteries is pretty easy then you can carry extra cells with you.

Yes thanks for that i will either buy two and sell the other or get a spare off someone. Just confirming though that the bms will infact keep the cells balanced and that the factory specs of the bms are fine for this particular battery pack? Also what 42 volt charger would work with this bms and what is the best way of connecting it? Thanks heaps for your input by the way. I have been reading this stuff for weeks now and it is slowly starting to sink in :sweat:

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@wafflejock I’m not against Lipo. But dont compare RC cars/drones to eboards. They have to carry some abuse in the hard way. Both are fine. All the different builds in here show that. I personally have seen/read more mess with Lipo than Lion.

@Boxer86 In the end, You’ll have to decide on your build. It’s up to you to choose your connector. You can have the standard charger one. Or replace it with an XT60 (If going for this battery). Lots of good schematics and parts on this forum

Edit: Any 42V (10s) charger will do. 2A is slow 4A is fast (2h max)

I don’t really see how it’s not an apt comparison seeing as how we use just about all the same technology, people on 6S with quads can pull 100A+ when flying to the moon :slight_smile: The point really though is 18650s aren’t inherently safer especially with the abuse we put everything on our boards through just riding them around on crappy ass roads. Just use the search feature here and search for ‘fire’ see how many 18650 fires you have to wade through to find anything about lipos, so far I only found a thread about how to not start a fire with lipos (safe charging). Granted there are more people using 18650s so the number of failures is going to be higher but literally can’t find a lipo one in there (even searching for ‘lipo fire’ I’m finding things about 18650s exploding only)

Thanks heaps for that. I will continue the research and work out the best setup for me.

By the way the only reason i am slightly swayed toward lithium ion is that i have read you get considerably more life out of them and if it is going to cost the same i might as well go with the longer life pack. I am however aware that the lithium ion pack will probably sag more but i am willing to take this for the longer life i will get out of the pack. As for the fires from what i have read if you are sensible either option will work and be safe as long as you take all the precautions when charging/discharging so i am not too concerned about that.

Curious where you saw about differences in the number of cycles, as far as I know that’s more dependent on the quality of the cells than the packaging: https://scottiestech.info/2015/06/21/lithium-polymer-vs-lithium-ion-batteries-whats-the-deal/

Have been using my original pair of 5S Turnigy batteries for a while now but can’t say I’ve been logging the health with regard to mAh put in while charging, maybe will check it out soon. I just got another new pair for swapping out the two sets if I do end up needing to take a longer than usual trip.

That’s why the parallel groups matter. at 4P. There is no sag to be mentioned (a bit at 3P, again my experience)

@wafflejock It’s hard to compare those statistics, that’s also why I don’t mention them and like I said. Personal prefs. If you Like big power. Lipo is prolly the way to go. And I think they’re more dangerous charging than being abused. (as a sidenote). But even on my powerdrills, I’m enjoying lions more than older tech. Lifespan being the main part

I don’t really get where the extra lifespan comes from I’d imagine the lifespan is really a product of the internal resistance and how much the battery is cooking itself (how stressed it is relative to that internal resistance).

Regarding overcharging and all I guess I just got accustomed to taking care and monitoring things with charging my quad batteries but seems safer than having your potential fire attached to an extra fuel source if it does go (plus worst case scenario I lose one 5S instead of a 10S).

Fact is, after 500 charges, the lipo is done. lion survives 1000. Why is there no lipo to be found in your cellphone ? or like I mentioned, good cordless power drills.

Interesting read. I did notice that in the article it said it is the number of cells that gives li-ion more life which makes sense. Comparing the li-ion 10s4p (40 cells) vs lipo - 5s 8000ah x4 (20 cells) with the offset that iipo have more volume for the same space resulting in more punch.