Hello Again, Here is the post for the Build: https://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/diy-evolve-bamboo-gt-copy-10s3p-custom-li-ion-pack-dual-vesc-dual-racestar-200kv-motors-my-second-build-first-dual-motor-build-first-custom-battery-build/61393 Pictures and steps will come tonight and in the future!
For a dual motor build, you will be using too many amps for a NESE kit. You will need to spot weld. If you would like, I would be able to build you a pack too since I have a spot welder and have built 5 battery packs since I got it.
I would just charge $30/hr plus cost of parts. It would probably take me <4 hours for a 10s3p pack. That is still cheaper than the cost of buying a spot welder, nickel strip and everything else.
I realy appreciate the offer @kuphjr but I think I’m just going to solder them. I have a high wattage iron and from what I have read I should not damage the cells if I am quick. I might also be able to borrow a spot welder from a friend, so I hope to be able to do that.
Would like to make a point here. NESE modules has superior power transfer comoared to spotwelding. There is nothing to compare. You can use quad motors and it would still be plenty of overhead. Nickel is not as conductive compared to copper used in NESE. You spotweld 0.2mm nickel strips compared to 0.6mm copper tabs in NESE. Reliable are of contact with spotwelding is the are of a spotweld and it will newer be higher than on NESE covering most of the posive cell end contact.
Looool. Are you serious or just trolling???
Spot welding does not dictate one to use a certain material. Eg. My welds with copper pads. But you do have a point in that copper is four times as conductive as nickel.
Negative. The reliable contact area for spotwelding when done well is the area between all the welds. The weld points do have a lower resistance as the metals are fused together and there is no air gap. Not only that but the welds provide a mechanical junction. NESE relies on springs or some kind of device to keep pressure on the tabs which is fine but there is still an air gap at the microscopic level between the pads and the cell as no surface is truly flat. The contact area is only as reliable as the holding mechanism.
If you say that the only reliable contact area in a spot welded cell is the spot weld itself then there is no reliable area in the NESE as there is no mechanical junction between the two metals.
The only thing you have a point with is that copper is more conductive than nickel. But that certainly does not make your product better than spot welding. Nice try tho
You said it yourself, when done right. How many out of 100 can do proper spotwelding? How many of those who can have equipment costing thousands? You find the numbers to be very low. You posted a spotwelded copper and that is fine, but have you thought of it turning green and oxidising? Bet not. There is your resistance going up. And you can see oxide forming on heated places of the welds. I don’t have to pretend of so called micro invisible air gap in my design as i have numbers, and the number is 0.622mOhm per cell of resistance. And in regards to compression, it is based on materials that went through extensive testing at different temps and service life. So, your statement: ''For a dual motor build, you will be using too many amps for a NESE kit. You will need to spot weld. If you would like, I would be able to build you a pack too since I have a spot welder and have built 5 battery packs since I got it." is as false as it can be. My packs are designed for motorcycles and eboards, how many motors you would mount is a toy compared.
P.S. Speaking of proper spotwelding, you forgot insulators on positive Not so professional after all
I’ve seen a few arduino spot welders on ES that can weld copper. I think they cost a couple hundred bucks max. It’s not for the faint of heart but we are in a DIY forum after all…
Were we talking about which is easier or better? Because your product is definitely easier to use, but definitely not better.
I take paypal if you want to send the money there. Assuming people are dumb really makes you look like an ass… Lets go through it slowly:
What is copper oxidation? Copper oxidizes due to exposure to oxygen (duh) and moisture in the air. Copper only oxidizes at its surface, that’s why you can polish and clean it off…
What is welding A weld is essentially two metals fused together, therefore there are no gasses (or air) in the weld. This means that there is nothing for the copper in the weld to oxidize to.
Why do welds not oxidize? Well. if you can put two and two together then I’m guessing you can see where I’m going here. A proper spot weld does not contain any air in it and therefore cannot and will not oxidize over time.
Where will oxidation form? The copper will oxidize over time unless fully sealed off from ambient air with desiccant to absorb any moisture at the surface. This does not affect the electrical properties of the copper pad as oxides form on top of the copper and not in it. The effective cross sectional area of the conductor does not change even when oxidized.
Will a water pipe still conduct water if it’s rusted on the outside? (Hint: YES)
Nope. read above…
Heck, you must have the same software they use on Criminal Investigation TV Shows where they can zoom/enhance anything into view!!! But seriously, no, there is no oxidation in my welds. I use a arc welder which works very much like a tig welder (if you’ve ever used one). They use argon gas as a shield to flood out any air around the weld before the electrode comes down and makes the weld.
Here is a better look at how welds look after cleaning under proper lighting.
You can pretend that physics doesn’t apply to you all day long bud… I’m cool with that.
This is actually almost useful! What is the cell? What was the SOC? What are the dimensions of the copper used? What was the measuring method? You do realize we are talking about less than a few milliohms of resistance? Your average multimeter would not be able to measure this. I could recreate your experiment here and compare numbers but I honestly don’t have the time. Oh well… (All of the above questions are rhetorical, I don’t actually care if you answer them)
Cool stuff. Good for your product. To be honest, I don’t even know what your product looks like. LOL.
Please point me to the post where I wrote those words, cause I do not remember writing any of that. Just so that we’re clear, I have done over 40,000 individual welds (well, my cnc machine has), welded over 5,000 cells, and finished over 50 packs with anywhere for 50-200+ cells. Again, I have not even seen your design to decide whether or not it could handle a dual motor eskate, but without a doubt, spot welding is a better method and any of my packs would blow yours out of the water.
Is this a dick measuring contest?!? Please let me unzip! My packs are designed and built for military aircraft, anything you make is piss in the wind compared to what I do.
I didn’t forget anything. Maybe next time, I will teach you what the insulators are for and how to use them.
If you were clever enough, you could see that my response wasn’t even meant for you, but you came in barking. Oh well, not gona continue this unfruitful debate.
WTF chill out guys. This guy over here obviously can’t afford a proper copper spot welder. Imo agniusm is just pointing out that at this hobbyist level his NESE modules is better than a rookie’s spot welding attempts. Everyone had their own opinions, no need to be so aggressive.
LoL then don’t make false statements that can get people hurt because of misunderstandings. Thank you @PXSS
I can stop laughing at this Nice to see you using science and evidence to prove your points how debates should be done. Well done sir
My brain is fried Lmao this is great conversation but I made this post to be helpful, not start a cock measuring contest. Please do not forget this forum is for both beginners and experts that aparently have the cash to blow on 300 dollar + rigs to make a few batteries.
He shows 5 welds that are about 1mm each in diameter so spotwelded cell will have 3.9mm^2 of reliable contact are. My tabs are precision stamped and have 50mm^2. I doubt that he can weld more than 0.2 copper so comparing to my 0.6mm tabs its less of conductor. Its not measuring dicks, its measuring facts. I dont buy that science of pxss