SOLIDEOGLORIA Modular Flex Enclosure [AU] -- SENDING FREE SAMPLES

Thank you for your kind complements. I appreciated your constructive posts.

The Modular Flex Enclosure is unique as far as I’m aware. It addresses the fundamental structural problems, design problems, and weaknesses aforementioned.

Materials like fibreglass / carbon are not designed for repeated flex, and stress. That’s why I’ve offered the Blue Kevlar Carbon. One-piece enclosures crack under flex and stress. Look closely and you’ll see.

Items like silicone coated wires are, however, designed to flex. Logically, this enclosure system would complement them, following in the same line of thought: Flexibility.

The modules are like ‘multiple unit’ trains, like the new Waratah train used here in Sydney. They suit our rough landscape and random town planning, because this city was improperly planned…

Diagram___ Waratah Train

ESK8s decks and enclosures suffer similar environments, relatively, that’s why skateboard builders prefer Maple for strength, and later came Bamboo, for both flex and the steel-like strength. – Cheap boards can snap!

This design started life on the drawing board so it’s understandably a bit strange and unconventional, but that doesn’t mean it’s dysfunctional. – There’s been a trend in enclosure design and pricing and I obviously differ on both. From what I can tell, the earliest enclosures were built out of necessity when none were available. One-pieces enclosures became the norm. Designs seem to have followed one another, until now.

One of the features I haven’t yet highlighted is how SLIM & COMFORTABLE the enclosures are to touch and hold. – If you’ve walked around with an ESK8 deck, you’d immediately realise how impossibly uncomfortable an enclosure is the moment you pick it up. It’s nothing like a traditional skateboard or longboard as it’s all bulgy and awkwardly designed. It rubs against your wrist all wrong and the thick parts bulge out against your body making you walk funny, and the weight is lopsided and unevenly distributed so you have to hold it weird angles.

The separate modules pragmatically space out the weight, so the board’s less like a see-saw, which will help with ridability, transitions, switches, slides, etc.

Also, the rounded edges on the slim enclosures make it and so smooth and comfortable to hold. No angles, means, no hard edges poking into you. :+1:

As for cell count… Well… ‘Bigger does not mean better’.

However, as an expandable enclosure system you can add as many cells / modules as you want. You can also reduce cells / modules.

For example, cell & enclosure size reduction would be relevant to a 12s4p rider who may find that 12s4p is overkill (too heavy, and dangerously powerful) instead preferring a 10s4p, or 8s4p, which is LIGHTER for shorter rides with less hill climbs… maybe for commuting, or for travelling on mostly flats.

Or you can have both setups, on separate boards. Have a long 12s4p board (7 modules) AND have a short 8s4p board (5 modules), all done using the same enclosure system. You could even save money by interchanging the enclosures instead of buying a new set.

i.e. AU $301.85 will afford you 7 modules, allowing you to have up to 3 boards, effectively, using one enclosure system…

E.g. With 7 modules you could have a ‘Big’ 12s4p board using all 7 modules, AND a ‘Short’ 8s4p board using 5 enclosures, AND a ‘Medium’ 10s4p board. Buying all 3 sets would otherwise cost $785.60 ($301.85 + 261.89 + 221.86). OR, Buying 2 sets would cost $563.74 ($301.85 + 261.89. So, with $301.85 / 3 = $100.61 per board, allowing you the flexibility to have 3 boards.

Which is good since one can only ride one board at a time! :+1:

Protection against failure: A critical advantage to having a series of separate modules is BATTERY INSULATION & PROTECTION. As each 2s4p is individually housed in effectively a fireproof container… Well, it’s very very safe. For instance, if and when a cell is damaged, the short circuit / heat / fire / explosion will not spill over instantly to neighbouring cells! … Any explosion would be contained… The physical separation insulates and protects. (See oct0f1sh, http://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/some-fun-video-of-my-longboard-exploding/26120)

Also, protection against water damage: When water enters an enclosure, it will move about as you ride, swishing around… Water is… well… fluid. (See, http://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/i-got-my-battery-wet-damage-control-options/49212/20)

Diagram___ Wet Battery (Courtesy of accrobrandon)

Think of it as insurance against having to replace your entire battery (AND have it rebuilt again from scratch). If anything happens, you’ll be covered. You’ll only have to replace a 2s4p, and maybe one module. That sounds like a major cost saving!:+1:

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(Price concerns addressed in OP.)

ROUND 1 SALE - 65% OFF FIRST 10 ORDERS

In theory, this is possible if I somehow manage to make these THREE TIMES FASTER, in batches of 10-20 orders at a time, using slave labour. i.e. sacrificially depriving myself of wages. – But the price has dropped! :sunglasses:

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Yeap now this makes more sense. Thanks brother! I believe your price is on point, maybe a ted low in my opinion, but up to you to decide.

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Glad to be of service. :sunglasses:

i think a lot of people have made fiberglass and carbon enclosures that haven’t broken and it depends mainly on the shape of it. Looking at this design as is if it was a one-piece design it seems the connections between each block are pretty flat and woudnt have a problem with the flex. fiberglass and carbon can bend a lot before breaking and be very flexible. theres a lot of parts made of carbon or fiberglass with a lot of flex

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Thank you for your input and recognising the design strengths. – You did good job with those maple / carbon decks. :+1:

That’s a broad assumption though… You’d need examples to demonstrate. – I have examples that I could share on the weakness of one-piece carbon enclosures (at flexible joints), but as mentioned above, I won’t name names. All I’ll say is this: Look closely at the stress points and you’ll see cracks, in all the enclosures out there.

Carbon has very little flex. When bent it breaks. Because it’s rigid it snaps like a cracker. – Carbon is essentially a sheet of diamond, and diamond shatters like glass.

Even steel snaps if you bend it too many times. And boards bend a lot in their life time, absorbing so many road vibrations. – Maybe I could demonstrate by snapping some carbon samples.

Carbon isn’t the most popular material for laminating between the wood layers in side boards. It’s way too stiff (making the ride hard and uncomfortable), and it won’t last as long as fibreglass.

The carbon on your Maple & carbon decks are just veneers right? While the sandwiched laminated layers are fibreglass, right? The majority of decks are made that way.

While the carbon veneer might snap, it’s protected by being safely glued to the fibreglass and Maple, holding it all together.

Enclosures, on the other hand,_ kind of just hang there_, floating around underneath, pinned down by a few bolts. It’s not bonded to the deck every millimetre of the way.

Thus, the ability to bend isn’t as important as tolerance to bending. For example, I can bend my feet to run, but I cannot continuously bend them to run a full 10kms. Firstly, I’m a sprinter and terrible long-distance runner, but my joints soon get sore if I don’t rest. If I pushed myself I’d definitely pull a muscle. But a _tougher _professional runner would have no problem.

(Actually, riding stiff boards is really hard on your joints… it leads to cartilage damage as your knees absorb the stress that your board could instead be absorbing for you… Anyway, I digress.)

Therefore, toughness and ability to flex is key!

See section on ‘toughness’ and ‘ability to flex’ below:

For this reason, the Solideogloria enclosures come reinforced with fibreglass. They’re tougher by material, and tougher by design. – Plus, since the tongue in groove joints ‘float’, between layers of neoprene, they don’t incur any stress at all… making its ability to flex appear unmatched at this point. :face_with_monocle:

the carbon in and on the deck I’ve been selling is real carbon and not a façade. its shown to be good though and been riding it for a long time without any delaminating and feels good the more I read about carbon vs e-glass or s-glass it seems carbon is mainly used for looks. Really for toughness from hits on the bottom of the deck it makes sense to use all fiberglass in my mind.

but I wonder what the goal of an enclosure really is as unless it’s reaaaaaly stiff its only going to be good for ricocheting rocks maybe but a true load on it will make it flex and collapse and whats underneath will be crushed. I’m not picking on you though and everyone likes an enclosure. how stiff are those blocks? can you show a test? Ideal I think would be as you intended it and very stiff blocks and then flexibility between the blocks. but even if the block is stiff, …how stiff and would it be so stiff as to not collapse enough to transfer force to the cells inside if the board bottomed-out on a ramp or speed bump? I think it would need to be very much more overbuilt for that to be possible, but since its for 18650 that are steel and very stiff maybe the forces transferred to the cells isn’t a worry and might as well forget trying to be stiff and just make it tough so that when you do bottom-out, and the cells do take a beating, the enclosure doesn’t shatter. seems like fiberglass is a better bet all round and way cheaper. you could do decoupage and put a sweet image on it! but maybe i’m wrong and carbon is worth it

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I guess that’s why BMW use Titanium mesh carbon-fiber, to increase flexibility but still light weight. I agree tho Fiber glass is usually the stronger one, and pure carbon fiber is brittle.

But I’m not sure the if we can break the carbon fiber while riding anyways, unless we intentionally crash it.

And if you want any fiber product to be on his max potential you need a really strong vacuum system

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Again people misconception of about strength/stiffness of CF and other fibers :slight_smile:

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Thank you for your recognition @Hummie and @onepunchboard.

Yes, for the pro-fibreglass reasons, I’ve promoted the fibreglass. Although understated it’s quite an attractive finish that you don’t commonly see. I really like both the clear, white, and black fibre vermicelli finishes.

White and black vermicelli can be made with less pigment for a more translucent / opaque finish. Say, at 50% opacity, making it clearer. It think it’s a nice way to show off the electrics too, like a glass window underneath a Swiss watch.

The Solideogloria One-piece Enclosure (offered to Australians) has significant discounts for fibreglass. IF the EU / US are interested, I could offer a similar discount.

The title of the KYLE.ENGINEERS video,

is a bit misleading though…

Yes, you’re quite right, carbon is pretty veneer, very practical (strong, stiff, tough, somewhat flexible, etc), but it functions mainly as a pretty veneer on decks. It is, however, less aesthetic and more structure on enclosures (and lids too), where it’s stiffness is beneficial. That’s why you see carbon fibre car bonnets, spoilers, etc, which are topical. But on supersport motorcycles, which are usually covered in plastic fairings (valued for it’s flexibility), it’s very rare to see carbon. Carbon is just too rigid for a motorcycle that wiggles and wobbles through a race track. – So carbon is a bit like icing on the cake. A hard brittle icing, with flex, yet still a hard.

I made a motor mount out of thick layers of carbon with reinforcements, yet all the vibrations for the motor, from speeding and braking, constantly hitting ON and OFF the accelerator, tore the mount apart. Heat from the motor didn’t help. The lesson learnt is that solid pieces of carbon, whether one-piece enclosures, or carbon panels, ‘are not designed to flex’.

In the Solideogloria enclosures, fibreglass does most of the heavy lifting. Hence, they are, and I quote, “fibreglass reinforced”.

The video’s theory, while true, is actually a bit misleading / inaccurate in practice

How so?

Well, the video uses the example a flat object (a sandwich of layers, or a ‘flat panel’), while the modules are a shaped object (a box shaped with edge flaps, rounded edges, a tongue and groove, etc). This makes a big difference engineering-wise.

Firstly, the torsional strength of the each module is massive. Look up ‘torsion box’ and you’ll see why. Basically, a box-shaped object, like kitchen cabinets, or hanging wall cabinets, etc, are very very strong and can hold massive amounts of weight before breaking. Just think of all the stuff in your mum’s pantry… They only become weak when the boxes are made too big that lose their torsional strength. – That is, in one-piece enclosures (longer than ~30cm / 12") there’s a large weak patch at the centre. If you poke your finger on it, it will indent. If you stick a stick into it, it may even burst. – That is why bigger kitchen cabinets are made up of multiple smaller internal cabinets, stuck and screwed together. But they must be side-by-side and stuck together in order to be strong.

Diagram___ Torsion Box Traditional

Diagram___ Torsion Box Strength Demo

On that note, the small proportions of 2s4p-sized Solideogloria modules virtually have no ‘weak-point’ compared to one-piece enclosures. – Maybe I could whack some with a hammer to demonstrate.

Secondly, the tensile strength is massive. That is, the amount of force it takes to tear it apart, whether carbon or fibre. Both are strong enough.

See the ‘Tensile Strength’ and ‘Tensile Strain’ figures:

Carbon has 49% the tensile strain of fibre (i.e. 0.85/1.75 = 0.49). In other words, carbon has 51% less tensile strain. Meaning that it cracks at the joints twice as easily.

So, you don’t need to worry too much about the ‘box’ part of the design, or the superficial carbon layer (although not always ideal), but rather you need to focus on the weakness of the joints.

As per OP, and I quote, “it’s the joints that incur the most stress.” This is where the tongue in groove joints shine (See multiple-unit like trains and extended buses vs. single-unit vehicles like the dangerously long Concord plane that is no longer safe enough to used by airlines).

Thirdly, having a superficial carbon veneer is not as ‘superficial’ as it sounds but is actually very practical as the material does take a good beating, whether it gravel, rocks, gutters, or board sliding on rails…

The weakness in carbon is when it doesn’t complement the materials it’s bonded to, like fibre, wood, or whatever. So, again, in this application, the weakness of carbon would be at the joints that incur stress, less so in the compatible / incompatible bonding with fibre / wood. – In an ideal design, I’d have a carbon cap on the surface of the box (like a lid / dental cap), and have the tongues / flaps made of fibre. But it’d take too much effort to make.

(See motorcycle gloves covered in carbon armour: 99% use carbon on the knuckles, palm, and ulna part of the wrist, to absorb crash impact into barricades, etc, while everything else is flexible leather – Because fingers need to FLEX COMFORTABLY.)

E.g.

The goal? Isn’t that obvious? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Well, it’s just been addressed above (re. flex and weak joints that will crack), but I mean, with this enclosure, if you really wanted to, it’s strong enough to board-slide on rails… and if you pop a curb and get stuck, or bottom out, you needn’t to worry.

Some Sydney suburbs have rounded concrete curbs (S-shaped ramps), maybe similar to places in Texas / Nevada / Vegas / nicer suburbs of California like Beverly Hills. So when you pop a curb to ride up a driveway, or onto a foot path, you’d be very likely to bottom out and graze 3mm (1/8") off the enclosure. Do that a few times and you’ll have nothing left but a battery pack to grind… … … :sweat:

(See above for accrobrandon’s water damage and oct0f1sh’s fire damage and short-circuit)

Likewise, on the East Coast in places like New York and Washington state it’d be even more critical with rough concrete slabs everywhere plus rain, snow, and puddles of water all the time…

But above all, a strong enclosure is an insurance policy to protect your electrics! The electrics, by far, are the most expensive and precious ingredients in an ESK8. Why would one buy high-quality 18650 cells made to last 5-10 years and an expensive VESC / FOCBOX to risk it all with a compromisable enclosure that cracks? – A strong foundation is the principle. ‘Build your house on solid rock, not sinking sand.’ (Jesus Christ, Matthew 7:27)

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how do you connect the cells between the boxes? nickel strip?

Nope. Nickel strip wouldn’t be ideal. – Nickel hardly tolerates stress.

Silicone wires, however, are designed to flex. They’re soft, thick, and ultra pliable.

See rubber grommet hole on the Blue Kevlar Carbon. You could route the wires through the side of the modules via. the grommets, or underneath the modules.

Example___ 20awg Silicone Wire

Other boards have used Flat Braided Copper Wire, which would work too, routing it under the flaps. Maybe routing out some deck material, a mere 2mm slither will do.

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o I see there’s the holes for wires.

I’m still not convinced you could make it a one-piece design that would be just as strong and flexible though. and I think you could still lay it up with the carbon “cap” if you really wanted, but Im not convinced the carbon is worth putting on after the fiberglass after watching the video above. yes shape will have a big effect but regardless of shape the material properties still stand and youd be putting the carbon reinforced by fiberglass.

in a way it makes more sense at least to have the carbon on the inside since it’s best feature is its stiffness in tension and with a hit from underneath that way it would be more in tension and not compression

but just feeling it out and you have your ideas how you want to do it…just bouncing ideas off you based on what I’ve read. And if you wanted to sell more the price is the big killer and I bet you could get it way down with the one-piece design skipping carbon

As mentioned, I do offer 100% fibreglass as an option for this enclosure. The design, however, would remain modular, unless popular demand wanted a one-piece enclosure.

popular demand wants it cheap and that would make it much quicker and easier to make I imagine and therefore cheaper. probably a lot cheaper I imagine. doing each one of those things sounds like a lot of work. I think the multiple box design has been done and shown to flex and …maybe not break. but if it did break I still think for sure it could be done so it didn’t with the right mix and layup

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Horses for courses. Each design to its own.

I could offer both designs in future with enough demand.

But yes, you’re quite right that a skilled lay up / vacuum process is beneficial, but only to a certain extent though (weight saving, having less amounts of brittle epoxy). A strong design does the rest.

To revisit the material-choice debate / carbon-vs-fibre debate. Again, the video is a bit misleading as the material is less important than design in this application. The 1.4% elongation of carbon vs 4.8% elongation of fibre, is an ever so tiny difference, just 3.4% (4.8-1.4=3.4%). But the video’s hand-drawn chart exaggerates the lines for illustration purpose… making fibre look like it has a 45% gradient, and carbon terrible at about a 15% gradient…

A more accurate graph would show how very very close the two materials in fact are.

Like these,

Chart___ Elongation (plastic vs carbon)Chart___ Carbon Elongation (Tensile Stress-to-Tensile Strain)

Fibre is very close to carbon, and superior in several ways, but it’s choice as a material is mainly cost driven.

Hmm, I should put my foot down more on the ‘Well, maybe a one-piece enclosure won’t break’ talk.

See Joe Kyser at 1:30 onwards, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX_zmS_blyI

Both carbon and fiber will break, at the joints that incur stress.

I meant maybe you could lay it up with the thicker glass on the box with maybe heavy triaxial weave and then underneath the boxes and going between would be some thinner stuff that allowed it to flex at the joints. Or even just stack a couple layers deep on the boxes and thin it at the joints. but with the joints being flat I doubt youd even need to and they would flex enough regardless but you do you, just think you could sell a lot more if it were cheaper and you could do it

What type of fixture and/or seal do you recommend for the Kevlar\Carbon enclosure. Would this type of enclosure work on a Loaded Vanguard?

Cheers

@anon42702729 Thanks for chiming in.

Sealer: Neoprene tape, 3-5mm thick, 10-15mm wide. – 3mm thick allows the low profile and flex (as per photos), but if you wanted more height (for more electrical stuff, like bigger cells, more wires, etc) and more flex at the joints, 5-10mm would do that.

Fixture: 306 stainless bolts with plastic washers. Most bolts will do fine as long as there’s enough thread. M4-M5 would be fine. M6 would overkill. – Threaded inserts screwed / epoxied into the deck would be ideal, but not necessary.

All of these would work. Lots to choose from!

Loaded Vanguard: This deck has a slight concave, so the side flaps of the modules would need a very slight bending inwards, on a warm skillet pan or BBQ hot plate (as carbon / fiber is pliable with heat).