I am a bit puzzled with this comparison…What is it supposed to demonstrate?
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Only that I trust sumsung and their tests when they say max 15amp. I made packs of 25r and my next pack will be made of 30q; so there is no bias when I talk about these 2 cells.
I have a 25r pack and a 30q pack, both 10s3p. The 25r pack is ok, not bad at all…but the 30q pack kills it. In terms of AMP delivery, I would put my 10s3p 30q pack against a 25r 10s4/5p pack any day.
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30q looks like an amazing cell.
I love comparing these on graphs (if you haven’t read up on some of mooch’s testing, or watched his youtube discussions - tons of good info!).
Pictures and graphs and side-by-side goodness! Satisfies my OCD geek tendencies… BUT realistically i think when you are talking such tight differences like the 30q and HG2 in the below graph - it seems like you wouldn’t actually notice a difference in real world?
I also like seeing a “worst case” scenario like 20A continuous discharge - not something we’ll see on esk8 unless you are going uphill the entire time accelerating… Or am i missing something? I want the ability to provide the “punch” of a high output pack, but if i’m pulling 100% it’s amp capacity 100% of the time - it’s going to not last and get really hot. Mooch set his threshold at 78C/172F for an acceptable temp for max output - where he then over-draws some 15A cells and rates them for 19/20A since they aren’t stressed and exceeding 78C.
more picture goodness:
(heavy 20A discharge across multiple cells w/ little real-world difference - except 25R and VTC5’s more noticeable 2500/2600mAh capacities)
Hope others like the graphs - great thread!
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Is the 45A enough for you? Is there much voltage sag?
I’m running a 10s3p 30Q pack on a 40in deck with 6in AT wheels (@psychotiller 6 Shooters) and it never sags more than 1V. I don’t actually feel the sag, that’s just what I see on my volt meter.
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Sweet, what kind of range you getting out of that thing?
I haven’t really measured it, my kid rides it a lot as well and he’s much lighter, so hard to tell. I think about 15-18 miles.
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Awesome, I think I might go with a 10s3p 30q pack, do you have a diagram, of your pack?
I dont, but @PXSS built it, he should be able to tell you.
Also, I am not running a BMS at the moment, so I charge to 41v and discharge to 34v.
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Cool, how should I go about contacting him?
I also have a 25R pack. Frankly, I’m not sure why I thought the 25R was the best cell when I bought them a year ago (and I don’t think I was the only one). I’d be curious what kind of longevity difference there is between your packs with similar use. It’s harder to test and document and I wonder if that may be where the 25R is a bit better, though only by a little bit.
30q capacity drops to 72% after 250 cycles, discharged at 22A each cycle.
25r capacity drops to 62% after 250 cycles, discharged at 20A each cycle
Thus 30q are better even regarding life cycle at crazy discharge.
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I’ve only charged my 30q pack about 10 times, I’ve charged the 25r pack prolly 50 times. I rebuilt my dual ly too speed for my kid, he rides alot.
I’ll.pist if I see a major difference in capacity and/or performance over time.
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Woah very good discussion! I think the thread should be renamed a bit to focus on the benefits of 30Q cells even more!
// If someone researched more then they would find that some claim VTC4’s are actually good for about 23A anyways… and they do tend to heat up after this ‘treshold’·
Concerning 30Q’s, nice graphs @fedestanco ! Hadnt seen those before.
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I think I also had seen their temp graph somewhere and it also showed 30Q’s tend to heat up even a bit less than some 20A ‘officially rated’ cells, for example.
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Agreed - would love to see more 250 cycle comparisons and temp graphs.
I just got some VTC5a’s and can’t wait to build them! Realistic 25A with plenty of capacity. Not sure on the 250 cycle comparison though!
Agree on the thread title - should be “current 18650 comparison” or similar.