What happened in the EU group buy and what I hope what can happen next

How I messed up

  1. Missing Parts
  2. Unorganised when ordering and shipping. I will try my best to fulfill these orders.
  3. Unexpected shipping costs
  4. Lack of transparency

Received an odd number of wheels, didn’t come to my realisation until much later during postage process

Not putting 100% concentration in packing, stressed at school and very little amounts of sleep.

The whole system of the group buy, basing orders off spreadsheets that were difficult to read and reading DMs on the forum, inefficient and time consuming which lead to even more errors.

By no meansdid I intend for orders to be uncompleted

Lathing

  • I blame myself for this one but it could have been easily avoided TLDR - Pulleys were not suitable for flywheel clones.

Designer of the pulley gave all files inc. pulleys and motor mounts. Respect to him. I did not ask, neither did anyone else if the pulley was suitable for flywheel clones. Maybe the designer was not aware of this either: Incorrect Length Screws - I only followed orders from Jlabs and Designer of pulley

Faulty BMS?

  • Happened to my friend, BMS blew out. I suppose this is inevitable from untested parts from a group buy. In the future group buys I hope everyone tests all products for sale.

Long shipping time - Unorganised , Stressed and Lazy and scared to confront many angry customers.

Motor Problems?

  • I only spent a couple of hours on here and saw a few complaints, I was not part of this section of the group buy, Jlabs was. I am unable to help anyone with this issue as since the start Jared insisted he had close relations with the supplier and that he would contact the motor manufacturer during all periods of the group buys. I had no control over this, he would not tell me who the motor manufacturer was from the start.

Main cause of failure

  • Way too big than anticipated and I was not prepared for such task, I assumed the group buy would perform like others in the past. And of course, not being transparent, its not easy talking to many people which have a 100s of questions, I have learnt not to ignore your mistakes but to correct them

I am going to be honest.

I spent about 1 month finding every single manufacturer for this group buy (except motors), gathering prices and shipping quotes. But in the end I was not educated enough to know that battery shipping was so expensive, I tried something new and it bit me in the ass and everyone else in the group buy, I am truly sorry. I did not mean to cause grief to those who particpated in this GB

I don’t trust Jlabs anymore here’s why

## 1) Stripe Payments

  • Although there isnt great evidence for this anymore since the market website has shut down which means I have no evidence of the orders, I did screenshot some things to show that there was something with the payment system on the website:

The EU Polar store received around 20 orders, 5 of which I received no money,

Jlabs returned $77.29+ $43.74 of that making 121.03 US$.

I am 100% sure that those 5 orders did not equate to a monetary value of 121 US$/£91.86.

Unpaid Orders

Order 611 payment completed via Dokan Stripe on Charge ID: ch_195tejGsv9KVRoUaLVqKs2td

Order 624 payment completed via Dokan Stripe on (Charge IDs: ch_197u8rGsv9KVRoUayKucDlOJ)

Order 642 payment completed via Dokan Stripe on (Charge IDs: ch_19B0SaGsv9KVRoUaMqt6uLOX)

Order 731 payment completed via Dokan Stripe on (Charge IDs: ch_19XEbyGsv9KVRoUaxSetCm5V)

Order 746,731,642,624,611,587

These 5 orders were fulfilled, I am not blaming Jared for this because I don’t believe he is a fraud, but there are some questions to be asked here.

But since the website is not there I am not able to support this argument with a lot of evidence. I did contact stripe during this time and they told me to contact Jared:

Email from Stripe

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me on this.

I’m glad that you recognize the email address and you know who they are. You will need to work with them directly to understand where the funds are going. This is the account that we show as the active Platform and is receiving the payments that you have referenced in your previous email. The owner/contact information that I have is Jared Ebersole and they can be reached at [Phone No.].

If you have any other questions, just let me know—I’m happy to help.

All the best, Emma

Hi,

Sorry for your frustration here, but I can only tell you that there aren’t any future scheduled Transfers that I can see against your account.

After you’ve communicated to Jared, and things still aren’t making sense, please let us know and we can step in and help.

Best, Emma

2) The second issue here is what made me the most angry.

Here’s the situation

  1. I did 2 or 3 Group buys before I joined with Jared.
  2. I wanted to grow, spread the love
  3. I messaged Jlabs because I saw he had relations with motor suppliers.
  4. He had motor suppliers, I had everything else at that point, seemed logical to join forces right?
  5. We talked for a bit, I shared my suppliers etc.
  6. He wanted to buy some ESCs to test them out etc. I sent some money over to cover the costs $156.55 (Sept 22)
  7. and received $155.00 (Oct 05)
  8. At this point I had trust in him so didn’t seem like a bad idea
  9. I proposed the idea of an international group buy
  10. We had a plan, we had phases and on how to progress

So we started off with the first group buy, where we ordered motors,controllers and wheels, personally I didn’t want to many motors in Europe because that’s not what was needed in the market at that time and having an excess supply will just be a burden on progress. At this point, Enertion wanted to make use of the group buys I was holding and kind of act like the michaelinvegas of europe. I declined knowing that I enjoyed finding suppliers and making customers happy.

Here’s where it went wrong,

Jlabs thought process:

Here is my thought process… If you were to do this on your own, you would reinvest everything you make, like I am doing… So you get to keep a hundred euros or so and the rest can go towards paying for the motors, I can then sell the motors and buy more stock and have some sent to you. You then sell the stuff and make a nice commission. I think it’s fair for the both of us.

My thought process:

Keep growing in Europe and only invest in Europe. Eventually we will grow together through simple business mechanisms. Eventually make greater profits and move away from group buys when there is a low risk.

What actually happened:

I invested into motors in USA, because I didn’t need that many motors in Europe it would make sense just having a product where there are low levels of demand in the area you are selling. I assumed that the money would be returned similar to which the ESCs were.

I really had no choice, Jared didn’t have enough money to fulfill orders in the USA, I had profit retained from past group buys to spend on motors and that led to the decision of paying $1547.17. Where the cost of my motors was $773.00 (+ 250$ which was spent on remotes to avoid unnecessary movement of money)

At this point I was little disappointed in what happened, but Jared explained it would take 1 month to sell the motors. Here I expected a return on the money I sent to Jared which could be used to be spent on Wheels/controllers for the next group buy. But that did not happen, he avoided paying me back by saying he would return the monetary equivalent in motors in the future.

His words

I don’t owe anything!! It was not a loan! We went over this before you sent the money!

Profits in the last 3 group buys were gone, obviously I was not with Jared at this point and group buys were just a way to get parts into europe and get some money. So yeah I did spend some of it and save some for times where I need money. In the next group buy I did manage to get around 5 motors paid by Jlabs.

Say 5 motors cost 45$ = 225$ What I gave Jared = $1547.17 What I got in return = $773.00 + $200 3 months later. TOTAL $973

What am I still waiting for? $574.17+ 5 unpaid orders.

Essentially I sent 1600$ for 20 motors - In the first group buy. And then got a 200$ discount for the most recent group buy

This whole situation of me not getting back my money was based on assumptions, Jared would assume that money was going to be spent elsewhere, therefore the logical solution is to send motors, which I didn’t want since it I didn’t make sense to sell something that didn’t sell as much as Wheels or controllers.

I can allow someone to read over these skype messages if they really want, I can send screenshots. He was really unclear on the situation of the motors and the money. And given the circumstances I had little movement in choice so I decided to pay for the motors. This wouldn’t have a huge problem if I had a full time job, but that’s not the case.

At this point there was no changing his mind, he would not send money. His solution was:

I can send products to grow the business but I am not just going to send you money to spend. I never said I would pay you back because it was not a loan.

The reason I made this thread, explain how I messed the group buy. Evaluate and learn from past mistakes and to be more transparent.

What I hope that can happen next

Fufill those who were left without full service in the last group buy. Get on good terms with people from the last group buy. Hopefully continue my service on the forum as reflecting back onto this experience I am able to see what I did wrong and how I can solve it.

Thanks

Last word, this thread probably doesnt make much sense since I am typing this in an impetuous manner, it is very late now.

2 Likes

You seem to have blamed a lot of this on @JLabs - however he has never given me any trouble when I purchased items, everything has always been smooth and quality work that shipped to my door in less than a week. After what happened in the EU group buy that was plain and obvious for everyone to see, I think that you will need to do more than a text apology. You say that Jared didn’t pay you back what you gave him for the orders and you claim to have proof. So share the screenshots! Until you do, I refuse to accept your statement that one of the most valued vendors on this forum would have any reason to rip people off. I wish you the best of luck in fulfilling the remaining orders, however I still believe that your reputation will be on a thin wire for a very long time because everything from management to shipping to quality of parts was not acceptable.

First off, thank you for coming back to the forum. I hope the rest of the people who didnt get their parts can finally get them. With that said, what does your problem with me have to do with anything related to the group buy?

I’ll brake this down, because there are always two sides to every story :slight_smile:

With the Stripe payments, I sent you everything that I had received. Im sorry if you didnt get the other payments from Stripe, not sure what I can do.

@anorak234 Everything that is quoted from me is what I said on Skype, and true. BUT, the other stuff is just his opinion and he left out a huge portion of text to try and strengthen his argument. I have to give you props, you used quite a few public speaking techniques within the post…

From your 1st post: Word Count talking about the group buy and taking the blame: 282 words Word Count passing the blame to me, Jean Pierre, or someone else: 169 words Word Count trying to bash me when it is irrelevant to the group buy: 1,215 words

Hmm… :thinking: see a problem there? This post isint really about the group buy, your just trying to bash me when all you wanted is money for your self and not any parts. The final word is that you sending me money from the first group buy’s profits (you lost NO money) had absolutely no affect on the last group buy. I would really like to see the transactions from your PayPal account because I bet that after you got all the money from the last GB you spent a few hundred dollars and then when it came time to pay for shipping you had nothing left. Only then did you come after me when you probably had no money.

You also lied multiple times and admitted to it in the Europe GB thread. Then once it came time to fufill the orders you sent some and then disappeared for months. How is that my fault?

We can also talk about all the import taxes that you didnt pay and had sent to me… Its about $263.

Anyway, I can go on but I think I made my point that your untrust worthy, and this argument is not meant for this forum. This forum is meant for building electric skateboard not passing blame to other people.

In your post you talk so little about fulfilling the orders that you havnt sent and giving people the parts they paid for. So how bout more action and less talk because that’s all you seem to do.

On a side note, this should be my last post in this topic because this should be about Ajay fulfilling orders and the Europe GB and not about financial information.

Well I have a Gyazo album of the chat if you want to look at it

I was not passing blame, I was giving an explaination for the faulty parts. I did not blame the designer and I never will, he did enough by just giving the files. I take the blame for the BMS as much as you should take for any blame that goes wrong with the motors. As that was your responsiblity.

It is your website, I was your partner…

We should have resolved this instead of leaving me with unpaid orders…[quote=“JLabs, post:3, topic:26559”] You also lied multiple times and admitted to it in the Europe GB thread. Then once it came time to fufill the orders you sent some and then disappeared for months. How is that my fault? [/quote]

I sent all, and to my knowledge they were complete. I was contacted by @wald.adrien on my personal email, and we resolved the issue.

I have now resolved this issue with @adrian009

Working with @Surfer Working with @karma

Also need to talk to a few others in my own time.

True but this is a community too, everyone should know whats going on.

This thread is about both topics as they are linked.[quote=“JLabs, post:3, topic:26559”] You also lied multiple times and admitted to it in the Europe GB thread. Then once it came time to fufill the orders you sent some and then disappeared for months. How is that my fault? [/quote]

I did not blame you for me going off the forum

Sooooooo does this mean I am getting a refund for never receiving my remote?