FLIPSKY 4.20, A Explanation to the mystery, and how to stop the cutouts entirely!

This is clutch

3 Likes

Yup, and it’s such a classic “everyone wins” scenario. Love this aspect of the forum, and guys like @Schtekarsten and @Gamer43 who offer this kind of help.

8 Likes

Just to add on gamers post. They said that they have successfully tested out the resistor modification and that they will from tomorrow and onwards ship the new 4.20 based vescs with the modified resistors. They are just mega busy moving their factory to another location that they have not yet “officially” released the changes.

10 Likes

Just to be clear, does this mean that the new 4.20 will be able to handle 12s without issues or should we still be cautious?

5 Likes

Yes! By all means go wild! Foc works too without any issues.

Well the cutouts have never been about the voltage to be honest!

4 Likes

I guess we can say that after the resistor change, the FSESC 4.20 is probably one of the best VESC4 hardware variants available, especially at its price point, heatsink, and form factor.

12S FOC 60A, full throttle no problems. Hard to beat.

12 Likes

Does the deadtime requirement not change with the higher gate resistance? Shouldnt we change the DT setting from 360ns or whatever to 400 something? Does the 4.2 drv have auto deadtime control?

2 Likes

Interesting! I am not sure if the firmware automatically calculates that or not. Unfortunately im away for a few days so I can’t test that right now. I have not noticed anything wired regarding the startup though so who knows. Maybe someone with more knowledge regarding the software or electronics in general can answer that question. :woman_shrugging::dancer:

No, you cannot modify the dead time insertion on the VESC. It is more than sufficient (360nS). The dead time compensation in VESC tool is for the FOC algorithm, but for whatever reason, using the correct values actually introduces bugs.

1 Like

Not foc DT compensation. That reduces dt at low rpm in foc mode. I mean the deadtime number in the hw ifdefs. Transistor gate capacitance and gate resistance is an RC circuit. It has to charge up to 3.5V to start turning on, then it needs the miller charge, then it is on. If you use gate resistor that is 4x or 10x as large, it makes sense that it would take slightly longer to turn the transistors on. Its obviously not noticeable, so it is probably not a problem, but if it was my VESC i would flip my board over and take 5 min to look at the gate waveforms on the scope to double check.

2 Likes

The default is 60 timer counts (at 168mhz, this is about 357nS.)

The ntmfs5c628nl has a gate charge of 54nC, and an input capacitance pf 3.6nF. With 47 ohm gate resisfors this results in a rise/fall time of ~300nS. It cuts it close, but if there were problems with shoot-through, we wouldve encountered thermal problems during testing fairly quickly.

1 Like

You definitely would have noticed a problem by now. Sorry to be a negative nancy today :slight_smile:

1 Like

No problem, I actually forgot about dead time insertion with respect to the gate resistors, thanks for bringing it up. Always good to indicate all possible problems with changes.

3 Likes

I need this also, but it’s a bit daunting when I don’t even have a work bench. Can anyone provide this service?

1 Like

well I dont have the equipment/ experience nor the time to make it worth while. Idk be creative contact people that knows their ways around electronics and supply them with the resistors and the vesc and a few beers. Or go to a computer repair store and se if they can do it after hours or something.

1 Like

@boramiNYC I searched for all kinds of service providers in order to find someone capable of doing this repair down here in Miami. I haven’t gone to see him yet, nor do I know how much he will charge for this repair, but its a Computer Motherboard repair shop. You might be able to find someone in NY doing this type of work. Someone who “really repairs” phones might be able to do it as well, but def not a shop that just replaces broken screens mostly.

@boramiNYC just an idea. Just look up Loius Rossmann(https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup) on youtube. He does board level repair. Maybe he can help you. :slight_smile:

3 Likes

It took a couple of hours but I maneged to change the resistors and oh boy did it work! No more cut-offs!

10 Likes

Hey thats awesome to hear! glad we could help!

2 Likes

Where u ordered them? I guess 602 size is all thats needed and 1% tolerance, right?

Not sure I will order from Arrow, so should find alternative locally