Stuff Is generally a lot more expensive here. (Shipping and taxes) The Facebook uk esk8 forum is a good place to start too. There’s a few guys who might be able to help with a battery pack. I make fibreglass enclosures, but you might want gaffa tape to stay within budget like I did on my first build!
Yep, ive got evidence. 23 minute video of the 10mile ride with all the data overlaid.
I dont think current setting matter if we were riding together at the eqme speed for the same distance. My total current setting are much higher than his anyway.
A 4 wheel drive would draw more current than a dual becaus eyouba re powering more motors that would not increase efficiency but rather decrease it
The efficiency on the hubs was really good I’m surprised. For the the first 3 miles we did when I had fresh legs and was more on the throttle I got 21whr/mile + the next 7 mile (~10miles) I got 17whr/mile then by the end of the 19 mile ride I was down to average 14.8whr/mile. So by end of the day I was easier on the throttle and effeciency went up.
You have four hubs that are “geared” for 60mph unloaded and I have two belted 6355 motors geared for 34mph unloaded and braking I would say I had the edge. But I wonder if you had two hubs wound for my top speed would braking and acceleration be as good. That would get my interest
Was a fun ride. We should do another comparison
You know, you have to be careful here. As most of people are using belt driven motors. They don’t like the fact that there are also some advantages with hub motors. Anyone who has had physics at school knows that less moving parts means better efficiency. If I’m not wrong in car industry we have something called horse power, and break horse power. Where horse power is power measured on wheels, while break horse powered is power produced by engine before transmission loss(~15%).
There are some advantages to hubs, but efficiency isn’t one of them. True, in a sterile test environment with an unloaded hub vs belt drive at a given RPM, the hub will probably win out due to no losses from the belt. However throw in a load, stop and go traffic, wind resistance, hills, etc and the gearing potential from a belt drive train easily outweighs any efficiency the hubs had over belts.
Yaaay that’s what I wanted to hear. Although both are technically single speed, belt driven systems have an advantage in tunability. The fact you can change your gear ratio to find a sweet spot in efficiency is awesome. IMO the motor’s ability to run at an ideal rpm for the majority of the time outweighs the mechanical deficiency of moving a belt around. Besides, belts are very efficient! I love belt driven stuff.
Real talk though I want to see a really head to head comparison. Hubs have great potential but at this moment I favor belts cause they’re just so much more accessible and reliable overall. Someday when a really solid hub design that can be purchased by the majority of the market I will be impressed
But I think that’s why carvon hubs are more efficient they take concepts from both belt and hub motors, they lack the inefficiencys such as cooling and and bad urethane, but lack the bad parts of a belt drive such as resistance, my single v2 had more range than my single enertion 6374 belt drive, I do agree however though that hubs have a long way to go until they can be better than belt drive but I personally and from what I have actually felt beneath my feet believe indirect drive is perhaps more efficient
What were the ride conditions like during the 10 miles? Lots of stop and go or consistent speed.
There are also a lot of other factors too, belt tightness, use of an idler, how each rider handled the throttle. You may have just been traveling at a more efficient speed for your setup than than the other rider so – for your use case the efficiency claim may be moot if you’re always in the sweet spot for your setup.
I don’t have evidence myself unfortunately but I get low whr/mile in stop and go city traffic and I accelerate/brake aggressively. I also have low rolling resistance with use of an idler. I am geared lower top speed so it’s probably not a fair comparison. It’s really difficult to compare likes here without getting a dyno like @Blasto has. Unfortunately the thread below hasn’t been updated, he’s probably too busy.
This statement is very misleading. Try pedaling up a tall hill on a unicycle, then pedaling up a tall hill on a geared bike and come talk about efficiency. Gearing makes a drive more efficient for the load being demanded which is why your car has a transmission in the first place. We’re not riding in hermetic environment.
belts: subjectively more interesting look still have clearance no axle to break almost no noise in FOC pushing when battery empty entirely possible and not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. loosen your belts a tad.
quote: loosen your belts a tad. I don’t use belts haha. I run hub motors.
who’s blowing VESCS by pushing their boards with it turned off? What cheap shit are you using in there?
So after all that is it belt or hubs???
Its belts, man. Until @Hummie finishes his Duke Nukem hubs, its belts. Just forget about hubs for now. Direct drives look promising though. Carvon has some good shit happening.
But still belts.
Belts win for me because I need versatility. I can take my drive train and switch to any motor I like. I can also tune my drive with different ratios. I can switch to any wheel I like, I am not pigeon holed into using a truck with generic geometry. I can tune EVERYTHING!
Or maybe a swappable stator in a direct drive config. That would work for me too. But who the hell is going to design a swappable stator cartridge? And how would that even work?
until i get my solid lithium boosters finished anyway. I’m working on a new battery pack that vents exploding cells through a thruster nozzle so that when you intentionally trigger thermal runaway it can ignite and nozzle the pressurized gasses out the rear. That way when you’re near the end of the race and you’ve already over drained your pack anyway you can just hit a button and light up the cells and get that hail mary win.
The carvon V3 system is modular. The stator can already be swapped with other 63 series SK3 stators with different KV’s if they are the same length. The axle is removable as well so a longer stator is possible with a longer axle. Still not as veratile as belts as @Chaka pointed out but I have 83, 90, 97 and 107mm wheels and the difference between the gear ratio between 83 and 107 is huge I can adjust my top speed over 10-15mph range in mush less time than a belt drive can.
@guyguy The 10mile leg was from the begining of the bike path north of thr Santa Monica pier to the end of the bike path south of Venice pier. Speed ranged between 2mph-20mph. Lots of almost stop and go ridong near the piers but no hills. We were all riding together keeping pace with each other so I dont expect riding style played a huge roll in this comparison. As far as me being in my boards sweet spot, I dont think it was at all, my board free revs to 60mph where as @Titoxd10001 board free revs to 34, if anything his board was in a much better position for efficiency in during the relatively low speed riding we were doing.
But why would a 4wd carvon board with a 280lb rider come anywhere near a 2wd belt board with an 80lb weight advantage on our 10mile ride, with stop and go and a decent range of speeds?
Luis is an experienced and knowledgeable builder and rider, we swapped boards towards the end and his boards is super dialed. I highly doubt he running his belts any tighter than necessary to prevent slipping and his numbers were what Id expect for a belt drive dual motor board with a 180-200lb rider.
If you want a real test, you have to test the same weight and environment. I ride with a Raptor 2 rider every 2 weeks (about the same weight as me 180lbs) and I consistently get better mileage with the exact same battery pack with all our stop & go riding.
Even on my 25R pack with 2Ah less than the Raptor 2, I ended a group ride a couple weeks ago with 71% while he was sitting at 55%.
yup. All of that is why i’m still on belts.
but there is a lot you can do with simply adjusting KV and wheel height. unfortunately its horrifically inconvenient compared to swapping a wheel or wheel pully or both.