I am anti-innovation & here is why

Thanks for the advice, However I politely decline to abide.

Want my advice? to anyone who doesn’t want to hear from a passionate founder of a business who is constantly striving hard to innovate & working to educate people & build an industry, they should deactivate their accounts.

Alternatively, they could try to contribute back to the community by making some thoughtful well-researched comments instead of trying to start arguments & trolling.

I should not have to restrict my input on the forums because of a select few people who spend their time trying to derail my vision.

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I like to believe you’re a resourceful businessman, yourself. In no doubt of my mind do you have the business reach and resourcefulness to maintain a product with competitive pricing.

Unless you are sourcing from entirely different suppliers, the basic component costs (capacitors, resistors, etc.) should be roughly the same, perhaps slightly more, than from before. For the upgraded FETs, I can’t comment. Given your business’s size and implied sales velocity however, I can’t imagine that you aren’t able to attain lower component prices from your suppliers.

Of course it’s obvious that the heatsink plus labor will costs more. Be it another 60ish dollars worth it more, I don’t know.

Enertion is not Evolve. Evolve builds good expensive boards, which is nice. Enertion builds a community and it’s very important to be part of the community and not become just a random supplier.

Discussion and (fair) critisism is part of DIY to make things better, don’t take every criticism personal.

I have understood your concerns well & i do take it on board, thank you for your feedback, it is very constructive

let me comment.

  1. I do not need to provide source files, so we will leave it at that.

  2. Vedder is currently looking at many commercial agreements for releasing the VESC 6 only time will tell what he decides to do to generate revenue.

I am glad you have toned down the accusations, i really do enjoy talking about this stuff when i can have a level headed discussion with folks.

the fact is enertion does make some profit. if we didn’t make profit we wouldn’t exist. nor would this forum, nor would vesc-x…

my staff wouldn’t have jobs, emails wouldn’t get answered

there would be nothing to show.

I have nothing to hide.

The price of the VESC-X is extremely fair & it is actually cheaper than many other vendors who sell standard VESC & it will outperform standard VESC’s

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There is providing input, and then there is arguing with your customers and calling them names when they have spent money on your website. But you do you.


not everyone on this forum is a customer of enertion & even if they were a customer it doesn’t mean i have to agree with them by default.

that would be very fake way to conduct business! i will happily disagree with anyone who i don’t agree with.


You are applying technological measures and restricting others from editing your source files / ordering PCB at some other place.

I wish I had time to sue you. Maybe someone has. Have fun. By breaking the license you are positioning yourself on par with Chinese copycats. Or even lower, because they at least have good prices.


Can you please explain how you can come with this conclusion ? The CC licence explicitely states that you have to share the changes made to the original licenced design. The dign includes des PCB files and the full routing. How come that you do not have to share the modifications you have made to this licenced product ?

If things evolve in the direction of individual not beeing able to get a PCB and solder their own VESC, I would see it a extremely detrimental to the VESC community. VESC community was open source at the beginning and I have the impression that you are pushing it torward a community where individuals will not be able to get the information pto produce their own VESC and forced to buy it. I hope that Vedder will be able to save the opensource mind of his original project but I see that all actors are not pusching in the same direction.

This is sad.


Dont buy a vesc x then… drama everywhere.


Your being hypocrite, defending chaka’s vesc then going nuclear on onloop? Say rmrf, do you happen to have a link to chaka’s BOM, or a link of you threatening chaka to realease it?

I have a suspicion that onloop developed vesc-x in Regards to chaka’s closed source version of Vedders open source project.

If Vedders Aware then Its up to Vedder. I can understand why onloop has only released the schematic, seems some people here would be ungrateful anyway no matter what he does.

This thread just seems to be about troll feeding, so far has not added anything of value to the forum, not even personal entertainment.

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I don’t want to get involved in all the arguments of this thread but the way I see it, @onloop is running a business and he can charge what he likes for the VESC-X, if some people deem the price too high then they’ll go elsewhere.

In saying that Jason, I too am curious as to why Jason hasn’t released full documentation for the VESC-X and why he believes he doesn’t need to.

Could you please let us know why do you beleive in this?

Creative Commons: When I release my work under a CC license in one format (e.g., .pdf)… :

Once a CC license is applied to a work in one format or medium, a licensee may use the same work in any other format or medium without violating the licensor’s copyright.

All your sources - Altium project and related files (schematics, PCB, BOM, etc.) - must be shared under the same license as original.

There is a reason why the VESC is open in all other formats - KiCad schematics, Gerber/PCB, BOM list, etc. …because CC license is applied to the work and not to the format or medium the work was shared in/with. This is enforced by the chosen CC license which declares that the same work in any other format or medium must be shared and distributed under the same license.

You should know these as you referred to the CC rules when you told others that they must share changes on components list / BOM.

R, Janos

He can - this freedom is guaranteed by CC - but he can’t violate the license of the product he is changing.

R, Janos

This post by @guyguy helps to explain it. The hardware is not covered by the cc license. In fact, it is generally recommended not to use CC license for hardware. However, we still may consider releasing the source files later.

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to be honest once released someone somewhere will strip one down and build a copy of it if it works and start to produce it anyway. So weather or not you decide to release it it will get copied once release so you may as well share the files and save your self any hassle for not share in getting into issues with veddar.

Funny how this topic sounds totally different when it is you who wants something published:

And please don’t start telling me that you in fact made the changes public - we both know a PDF is not the same thing.


The circuit design is not the hardware itself. The design is in multiple formats - PDF , Altium - all those formats should be shared under the same license.

That would prove your commitment to the community.

R, J.


Edit maxid didn’t say this quote onloop did maxid just shared it.

I really like this part of that thread he happy to lay the cc license when he is trying to benefit from it but when it’s him withholding things from other he seems to not be as compliment. Think he now changing from being here for the community to being here for his business, the less he shares the less your here for the community as a community work together to get the best results but keeping thing to your self will slow that progress

The truth is Chaka set a precedence by not sharing… he opened the door.

However, there is one simple difference.

  1. Chaka makes claims his hardware is upgraded but provides no details about the upgrades when asked for them. Still hasnt. The best he did was refer users to vedders forum to ‘read’

  2. I make claims about new upgraded hardware. I provide specific details of changes. I also provide schematics. No one had to ask me once.

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