II feel the same way. You can’t let someone limit your creativity. One of the interesting things about eboards is that everyone has their own style, their own ideas. enertion’s deck, lhb’s, chakas deck, my skyscrapter deck, and now the veneer pressed hallow deck I’m working on. Everyone has their own creativity, chose of parts, materials, and design. And youhave to either fund yourself or work within an investors guidelines…
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imo first rule is to pay yourself what you are worth. if your business isn’t doing that, then i’d challenge you that your business isn’t yet a business. only caveat is that you have personal cash which allows you the freedom to do that, or you work 20 hr days (i know what that is like) and fund through another activity. either way, i’m surprised by that and hope that you do achieve 5.
this is an interesting discussion and first time feel like i can contribute from experience, rather than being the one trying to learn as much as i can like a n00b!
i kinda believe that eboarding ** could ** change the way people commute in cities. That, escooters, and ebikes. The problem is the cost of all 3 for the average consumer is too high. Until it becomes affordable and easy enough (and safe etc), the mainstream won’t adopt, and the niche will always be a niche, albeit a fun one!
I don’t really care either way btw - there are enough other hobbies out there to keep motors & batteries etc in production for me to be able to keep doing it…
currently online search traffic for electric longboards is about 2% of total longboarding traffic [This is a good proxy for demand], from 2 hours of my time researching and doing some spreadsheets. so it’s not even in “early adopter” stage yet, it’s still stuck in “visionary” stage. for more reading on this, start here - there are some nice pics to explain.
bottom line: we’re no-where near “peak” eboard.
so the only way for the mainstream to adopt is a) to increase awareness, and b) to continually innovate so that prices keep coming down, until that adoption inflection point is reached. we’re not there yet for either. we bemoan the cheap chinese products, but they actually help increase demand. we shout at the guys like @longhairedboy who sell at high prices, but that actually creates aspiration. we think @onloop is a BLOODY AUSSIE (sorry dude, i’m a Saffa and I will never support Aussie rugby even though I have family in North Queensland!) and a bit of a direct hardass, but he’s trying to build a sustainable business. we knock Boosted Boards “because their boards are expensive & lame” - but guess what, they’re the only brand that Casey Neistat talks about, and he gets more YouTube traffic than everyone here combined, and then 10x more [someone correct me here - maybe he has profiled other boards, but afaik he is credited with helping Boosted grow through the awareness he created].
all of these ingrediants are important.
so now we’re back to profit.
the only way we can keep driving those prices down, increasing awareness, and creating aspiration, for more of the mainstream to adopt, is to keep innovating, and that requires profits. because you can’t do it in a vacuum, and you certainly can’t scale it enough to grow with increased demand. one of the key things I’ve noticed in my short, brief, but INTENSE love affair with this crazy global niche is that pretty much everyone who talks about it moans about how long they have to wait for parts… agreed? the business reason for this is that none of the guys selling parts have the capital to sit on enough stock to a) keep a ready supply of stock available, which means more topline revenue, the result of which is b) driving down their own cost through better volume margins.
so i think everyone who sells this shit needs to make a good profit. at least good enough to re-invest and make the time not become enough of a drain on family, finances and energy, that the innovation stops.
and then secondly, guys like @RunPlayBack need to get more support, because it’s his video work which is going to create the next youtube 2 Gazillion views video, to compete with Casey, and that means mainstream attention! Then everyone is definitely going to have a supply problem!
bottom line: do what works for you, live long, prosper. but don’t moan when someone is trying to make a healthy profit. if you don’t like it, shop elsewhere! for the guys that are trying to make a profit and build a business: keep going, grow your margins, grow your supply, re-invest, eat ramen noodles, and never give up! for everyone else, find the best deal you can, but support the guys who are making it happen in any way you can - but mainly by getting your mates to buy boards from you!
my rant over.
**** just in case anyone thinks i’m a capitalist pig, here’s why i have this opinion:
I built an ecommerce business from scratch, over a period of 5 yrs. it grew fast, very fast. i raised a lot of cash, but not as much as the guy from Uber 
i had 45 people, an executive assistant, a 10,000 sq ft retail space just outside London, we got up to £23k per day. and then we closed it down. i’m still recovering. eboarding is helping me recover.
i learn’t a lot, mainly about people, investors, fundraising, money, and profit, not in that order. there’s a lot more to the story, but the take away here is that i’ve been through the same steps we’re talking about now, and i have the battle scars to prove it. the only way you survive long enough to enjoy the good things is to find your way to consistent, sustainable, predictable profit.
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Great insight, especially in regards to CN and Boosted. He’s also an anomaly, a once in a lifetime personality that can fuse tech and lifestyle in an engaging way. More importantly, he’s capturing genuine moments in real time which is almost more valuable than the slickest, most highly produced and edited eboard video out. It’s a big reason why I edit almost immediately after a ride because I’m just going off emotions and instinct. And while I truly love ESK8, it isn’t the only thing I’m interested in so finding that balance is key. It’s how ESK8 meshes with the unknown or seemingly mundane situations in our daily lives that actually creates more awareness than posting about parts every day. Most people can’t make an instant emotional connection to a part but they can when they see real people doing real things.
Funny you guys are mentioning CN and Boosted. I was on a ride earlier today and I passed by some kids and they asked me if I was riding a Boosted Board. I told them a little bit about the DIY scene and they seemed really interested.
Something i’ve noticed since i raised my prices: Once people see my boards and realize what it is i’m actually doing, they stop yelling and start asking legitimate questions. Even at my price point, people realize that if you want something made specifically for you its going to cost more to build and service over its lifetime.
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really?.. that would be a nice result… i was starting to loose faith in esk8 humanity…
FUCK IT… I’m going to increase my prices too… just because of all the fuckers that keep yelling abuse at my staff… Adam has now actually quit working here…
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yup, that’s why your site is so important - it conveys that quality without you having to spend so much time in email…
think the commercial element to this which hasn’t been discussed, is that every builder should be aware of the market segment they’re going after… and what the pricing tolerances are there.
someone buying a cheap chinese board on amazon / ebay isn’t looking for a £1200 evolve GT someone spending £600 on a single motor custom build probably isn’t either. someone spending £1000 on their own dual motor build wants better performance than an Evolve, and their own “style” someone spending £1300 + wants a completely different experience to the amazon / ebay board.
but the volume is in the middle of the market; customer service issues at the lower end of the market; and unpredictable volume at the top end of the market.
so price and build accordingly, and communicate often. know your customer. but don’t be afraid of pricing to set your customer segment (so long as your product is worth that price, of course!)
hth
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Have you tried firing your gun into the air? Usually that quiets them down.
that really sucks about Adam, sorry to hear that.
Wow?! Really? 
He quit because of the abuse? 
damn… Must be a lot of negativity coming your way
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Can we get this thread back on topic
esk8 vendors should give me a board, $200 bucks and cook me dinner. That’s the way innovation works.
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I think I commented on this thread awhile back agreeing that vendors should make a fair profit, especially when innovation and R&D is involved. I wanted to check this thread again since this topic got discussed in a thread I started a few weeks ago, and I still stand by that original comment, but what I just can’t stand is where some items (not only, but mostly battery packs) are marked up to just an absurd amount. I understand it takes some time to spot weld and do the wiring, but when battery cells are gotten for around $3.50 a piece, and then you have packs with 36 cells going for $500 or 60 cells going for over $800, I find that to be an obscene markup. That works out to about $14 a cell, or basically a 400% markup on a few hours labor, where no innovation or R&D is involved.
its not just about the cells its quality of materials used and technique used by the builder, you are not paying for cells you are paying for someone to custom build you a battery with knowledge and technique that they have aquired with experience. That is valuable and so is their time so ill gladly pay a premium for such an important part to be build properly.
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You would not be my client, for the simple fact that you don’t see what it is you are getting when you buy a battery from me, you get customer support, warranty(depending on weather it is purchased or not), time, quality components, and a reputable seller. Now if you wanted you could build one yourself, most people can’t go with this option because they don’t know how or have the tools available. You could buy from someone else but you will pay roughly the same price. You have to see it like buying anything else custom it is usually more expensive but depending on who you buy from can be an amazing purchase. Cells are just a part of what goes into a battery pack, its not like we are making hundreds at a time…
I never said it was just cells, but the other components costs are nothing compared to the cost of the cells. The nickel strips, wire, shrink wrap, and other parts are very very cheap, so the main determination of the cost is how many cells are being used and that is the main thing you are buying in a battery pack. You don’t buy one for the nickel strips and shrink wrap, you buy it for the cells so it can power your build. Also, I mentioned that it takes time to build these, I didn’t say that there shouldn’t be any profit made for these, but that the amount they are marked up is way too much. You say it takes skill and technique to build these. Well I totally agree, but I spent less than 2 hours on YouTube and forums and I now have been able to build battery packs that look every bit as good as the ones I’ve seen for hundreds more. No I won’t be a customer of yours, but not for the reasons you mentioned, but because I did the research and learned how to do it myself because looking at the cost of buying a battery pack from a vendor vs getting the required tools and material along with all the cells and everything else I needed to build my own battery pack still was less than what I would have paid going through a vendor… and now I have the tools to build all the packs I want so they’ll be even less now, and I could potentially build some for my friends if the need should ever arise. That’s why I went that route, rather than purchase from a vendor. Also I don’t see why y’all are coming off angry at my comment. I made a comment that was perfectly in line with what the thread is asking and I didn’t bring up anyone specifically, nor was I rude about it, so I fail to see why that’s something that merits that kind of response.
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Also I used two example of cost for battery packs and they weren’t yours, so I don’t even know what you charge. I said I think it’s fair to make a profit, even for battery packs, so for all I know, your prices may be reasonable to me. It’s just the prices of the ones I quoted were definitely not reasonable in my opinion…