First Build: Vanguard | Dual TB 6355 190KV | TB VESC | 10S4P LG HG2 | Alien mounts | Paris 195mm | Alien remote

ESK8 Builds
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Hi,

finally starting my first build! I read tons of build threads on this awesome forum, but I’d appreciate feedback for my plan: I am aiming for 40km/h / 25mph, and I live in a very steep area, and I’d like to be able to tackle ~20% hills. I want to keep the option to change the gear ratio for increased top speed, though.

Deck: Vanguard Flex 1: I’ll go with the advice from @whitepony and use Flex 1.

Motors: dual TB 6355 190KV should get me up the hills.

ESC: Torque ESC. I am planing to use FOC, and I read mixed reports about it. Although, I had the feeling that blown DRVs are usually caused by wrong configuration (as long as you have the v4.12). So I hope these ESCs should do.

Battery: 10s4p Samsung 30Q. Thanks for the comments, guys! I’ll go for these instead of HG2.

Trucks: Paris 195mm. I like the idea of having a bit wider trucks and wide belts. So Paris 195 mm it is.

Motor mount: Alien mounts. First: those go onto Paris trucks. Second: I like the flexibility to switch to different motors and trucks, including DIY truck adapters @whitepony style.

Pulleys: 15mm 15T/40T pulley kit from @Titoxd10001. Probably 12mm would be enough, but I really want to go for maximum reliability and durability. Also I don’t like the very limited choice of belt vendors and lenghts for 12mm. This was the only option that I found to have wide belts, a large motor pulley, and still sufficient gear reduction.

Remote: Alien remote. I figured I’ll give this remote a shot. I’ll test it’s connection and failsafe feature before I actually step on the board, but I expect it to work just fine. Looks solid, not as bulky as (unmodded) GT2B, receiver with enclosure and antenna, and a fail-safe feature.

Enclosures: printed by @Eboosted I like the idea of making carbon fiber or thermoformed enclosures myself. But at the moment I have no tools and equipment whatsoever. Also I can’t wait to finally stand on an esk8. Next build I guess…

Wheels: 90 mm flywheel clones. The roads here can be rough. I want big wheels, I don’t like green wheels. So clones it is.

BMS: bypassed 30 A batterysupports. This is a tricky thing: I definitely want to bypass it and only use it for charging. On one hand the protection of the battery is not really needed if you carefully choose the settings of the VESC. But what’s more important: I don’t want this thing to “protect” my battery by deactivating my brakes… “So I totally ran into this car, but at least my battery didn’t get overcharged.” I live pretty much on a hill, so for my usual rides I will simply not fully charge the battery and live happily ever after. Since I bypass it anyway, I could probably take a way smaller BMS/balancing circuit , but I couldn’t find one with a decent balancing current. In my opinion a maximum balancing current of 65 mA is already quite small for a 12 Ah pack.

All the other stuff: I am of course aware that I’ll need tons of small pieces like an antispark and connenctors etc… First thing will be a diy spotwelder that I’m working on. I will update as the parts arrive…

Cheers everyone!

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All fine :slight_smile: But go for 30Q instead of the 25R. They are better in every regard.

And I’d still opt for the kegels. Even if they are 83mm. Just way better than clones.

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Thanks for the feedback! But I was going for HG2. They are rated for 20A/4A discharge/charge. Q30 only for 15A/4A. And I’d really like the 90mm wheels, and it seems there are plenty of decent clones around. I’m not sure which ones are the best, though.

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How about these https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/basen-4500mah-26650?variant=14135870212

You could build a 10s2p with the same amperage for a little less money and less space in your enclosure. Or you could build a 10s3p with more range, way more amp draw, less space, and less money.

EDIT- The 10s3p would be more expensive.

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But it is not cheaper. The charge/money ratio and charge/weight ratio is way worse than for HG2.

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Nice build plan! It should work!

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Im sorry, I spoke too soon about the 10s3p pack of the Basen cells, however, for around $17 extra, IMO you could build yourself a much larger pack.

A 10s4p pack of theLg HG2 cells would cost $200 for the cells. This would give you 12,000 Mah, 80A continuous pack.

A 10s3p pack of the Basen Cells would cost $217 for the cells. This would give you 13,500 Mah, 120A continuous pack.

However, I am not sure about the weight and I am assuming you are correct about their ratio of power and capacity to weight and size.

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Sorry if I hijack your thread a little bit. I plan on doing a similar build as to the trucks, board, motors, and escs. What would you guys say if I used two 6s lipo batteries (1 for each esc+motor) instead and skipped the bms? For simplicity sake, is that possible?

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OK, I didn’t use the bulk price for the energy/money ratio: HG2: 230 Wh/kg, 2.2 Wh/$, Basen: 170 Wh/kg, 2.3 Wh/$ The increased weight is a no-go for me, and there is no use for the additional power, since the 10p4s will give pretty much the maximum that the VESC can handle. So I get the same power at the same price with a significantly increased weight. And it will not fit as nicely into the enclosures.

EDIT: Corrected units… not Wh/g

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Ahhh I see, the higher amp draw would lead to less stress on electronics I think, as well as reduce voltage sag though that shouldn’t be a big issue anyway. The Basen cells would give me slightly more range as well but if they don’t fit in your enclosure and your mind is mad cup about the Hg2 cells, that is completely fine :slight_smile:.

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I’d still opt for the 30Q over the HG2. The discharge curve of the 30Q is superior to all of them. And they have way less voltage sag than the HG2. I went with 25R for my build but I’d trade for 30Q every day :slight_smile:

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I looked into LiPos too, and decided against them because they are usually way heavier for the same amount of energy, and have a way shorter life span. Also you will need a balance charger. In my opinion LiPo can make sense for you in the following case: my pack Li-Ion is pretty large, but it NEEDS to be this big to give me the full power. A smaller pack will not give enough Voltage/Amperage. You WILL, however find LiPos with way lower capacity and at lower cost that will provide you with 80A discharge. So if 10s4p exceeds your budget, you might go for LiPo. Otherwise I would bite the bullet, which also means spot welding and all the crap that comes with it. You’ll get a way lighter and more durable pack with Li-Ion.

EDIT: Oooor, the Basen cells that @Smorto suggested here could be a good option for a small pack with full power :wink:. Now I see an upside to them!

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I don’t see how. You get more range per cell, but that’s not what it’s about, right? You don’t get more range for your $$, and your board will be way heavier. So I don’t see the upside of the Basen.

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Hm, OK. I didn’t really go as far as comparing discharge curves. But are you sure that the 30Q still comes out in top if you discharge both at the same Amperage? Because the HG2 is rated for a higher A, and the curve highly depends on that. Could you post a direct comparison? I really want the 40A/motor. At my weight and the mad hills around here I need insane torque.

EDIT: Found it

The discharge curves at 15 A are about the same. I fell better with drawing 20 A from the HG2, though.

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The upside IMO is that dollar for dollar, you get more Wh which essentially means more range.

Using standard pricing (not bulk) we calculate that the LG cells have 3.6* 3=10.8 Wh per cell (using nominal voltage). Then we take that and divide it by the price for each cell which gives us 10.8/6=1.8 Wh per Dollar

Same thing for the Basen cells gives us 3.7*4.5=16.65 Wh per cell (using nominal voltage) Then we take that and divide by the price of each cell which gives us 16.65/7.98= 2.09 Wh per Dollar

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Except I’ll by the HG 2 for 5$, which will give you about the same WH/$ as the Basen. :wink:

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Screen Shot 2017-05-31 at 7.02.30 PM.png1147×467 109 KB

This says $6. If you are taking about the bulk pricing, I mentioned in that post that I would be using the standard pricing, not the bulk :wink:.

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Don’t you think it makes more sense to use the price that you actually have to pay for the comparison? I really think as long as you don’t need more amps, you should go with HG2/30Q (@TranxFu has intrigued me now and I am looking into those too). If you are on a tight budget and want a small pack rated for 80A, this might be a good choice. But the extra weight kills it for me.

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@Mathias What did you have in mind for the diy spotwelder? I’m in a similar boat and trying to avoid shelling out the 200$ for something commercial :wink:

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I’ll try a quick and dirty solution with capacitors and a lab power supply: https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?orderId=84158446186333&productId=32570929215 http://www.ebay.com/itm/60V-5A-DC-Regulated-Power-Supply-Adjustable-Variable-Switching-Digital-Lab-/192150061976?hash=item2cbd094398:g:sjkAAOSw32lYvklW The capacitors are dirt cheap and the power supply will be my adjustable 5 A charger (in combination with the BMS). The first parts will arrive any day now, and if it doesn’t blow up I’ll report about it in the DIY spot welder threads. But for now I don’t want to make any promises. In principle I like the solutions using car batteries, but I don’t have a car at the moment and no salvage yard anywhere near me, as a cheap source.