Haha, well I am not sure who the idiot is in your example either when I try to gain some reflective distance, so this is incredibly poignant. George Carlin has another good one…
“Never argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience”
There are a few others that come to mind in this thread specifically…on the one hand “No Pressure, No diamonds…” On the other hand “Discussion is an exchange on knowledge, an argument is an exchange of ignorance” and “The purpose of argument, or of discussion should not be victory, but progress” To me this is an argument, and progress doesn’t seem to be occurring.
At first, I felt like the thread was asking about speaking freely at first when I voted, so right away I go for the obvious choice in my opinion, free speech. I think the more subtle (?) question was really, should the vendors specifically bitch back and forth, throwing accusations about and positing little actual, objective evidence of one thing on another. This is a different question entirely…The way this thread devolved, asking myself this question I would change my answer.
Look, I understand everyone’s position here. I run a small business myself. As a newcomer relatively to this forum/community ( a few months now) I have maybe not seen the whole story, but I’ve done enough competitive, capitalistic activity that I get the animosity that’s natural to the environment. Especially when you truly believe your product is superior or a better value, but people still go for what’s cheaper, mass produced, or just well marketed. It starts with playful jabs back and forth, maybe you make an attempt to work together but it falls through and then it’s all out war.
The problem is, nothing worthwhile is really getting said from what I am seeing. Just a lot of hate and anecdotal evidence. The problem then for you guys becomes a problem of perception. This is mostly a community of adults, while some find this behavior entertaining ( hell, I think all of us do sometimes to an extent) at some point it becomes petty and annoying to watch when progress is not being made. People on here are waiting forever for hand made parts from you guys, and hours are spent on this? I don’t really follow this logic, as I expected long wait times going into it, but I know many people feel this way. Progress is ultimately what we all want. No one here wants to watch you guys bicker back and forth with not so witty quips about who did what first, and who’s copying who. For christ’s sake, is anyone here actually inventing these technologies? You guys are sourcing products, right? Maybe you are making slight modifications or coming up with a new style of motor mount for example. Other than that, you’re a reseller of someone else’s product anyways.
Instead of tearing each other’s products down you should be point out the positives with your competitors product ( which is likely a variant of the same/similar thing!) and then making a clear argument about why yours has the advantage, why it’s better for “X” application or what have you, and leave it at that. No petty, antagonistic quips required. Trust me, this is a surefire way you will avoid being confused for the idiot.
@onloop I totally understand where you’re coming from when it comes to business. I too used to work pretty menial customer service/sales jobs until I started running my own place. It’s a whole different thing. And it feels great. The best thing is you don’t have to put up with other peoples shit if you don’t want to. I think you make great points at times, you’re clearly intelligent and hard working. You love what you’re doing and even though you come off as a dick someime, it’s hard not to respect your confidence in your products and in most cases your willingness to be helpful.
On the other hand, I think you’re going beyond being “true to yourself” at times and just being a dick when it’s unnecessary to be a dick, maybe you sort of like the way it feels from the sound of it. It’s a pretty classic position of power attitude that you seem to have taken on. For example, your comment above in reply to @Karmannghiagirl and @delta_19 make some excellent points, are well thought and for the most part seem like honest replies. But does there always have to be a condescending remark? It’s like you assume everyone else is an imbecile who your forced to remind the simple tenants of business when really their trying to point out a simple tenant of business to you that you seem to blatantly ignore rather often, common courtesy.
Sure, Don’t be fake, be true to yourself, and “say what you mean, but don’t say it mean”. Take is as a naive, childish or soft quote if you like, but the point I am making is spelled out clearly by how these conversations have been taking place. You may feel attacked because you have it in your head that your putting in all this work and money to make the community grow and no one is respecting that, and on top of that they call you out for being a dick. Seems like a lot of bullshit for nothing…
What it seems like you fail to realize is that you’re encouraging them to do it by adding in the condescending remarks to the end of nearly every post instead of just stating what’s what and moving on. I appreciate your work, and this is a really nice forum that i have loved to use and be a part of, but from day one of reading your replies to customers I have been turned off of your business. In a market of constant innovation/changes and DIY vendors and members alike I was worried that you would basically tell me to fuck off in a matter of words if I had an issue with my product. Your battery looks great for example, that new case is sleek as hell for a DIY option! Still not really enough to get past the perception for me so I ordered elsewhere, and I had an issue anyways. But so far I have had great service in dealing with it.
Maybe I am just too sensitive, maybe your attitude is better suited to Australia than us softies in the U.S. Maybe you don’t give a shit about this constructive criticism, because after all “you can’t please everyone”. I just think that’s a poor excuse to offer subpar, hard-knock customer service because it’s hard as fuck to do it all yourself and do it the way it should be done, especially when your growing and growing fast. Even if you kill yourself to make it all work. Trust me, I know. What I’ve learned is that you can be “real” with customers and not have the obvious caricature-like corporate personality while still being respectful of their intelligence and not totally abrasive. Maybe you’re like me at the start and just over compensating, because you and I both know the customer is not always right. It may feel “fake” to just roll over for their false claims, or obvious mistakes of their own and I am not saying you always have to just give in, but sometimes that’s just good business. Honestly, I think what scared me off in the first place is that I haven’t seen one claim against your product by a customer or vendor without some big, ego based argument breaking out. Reality is irrelevant, Perception is everything.
I think I will refrain from posting for awhile also (sorry to all my adoring fans 
)