Koowheel thread

I decided to update this topic b/c I’m getting more and more excited about this board that I ordered from Aliexpress. The shy guys from China paid a visit to this forum the other day and I would want them to give us some more info on their board with dual hubs with impressive stats.

Here you can find some videos of the board amongst the other electric vehicles they are selling (just ignore the hoverboard stuff) https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/koowheel/

I was very sceptical that they could have this performance and range out of a 4.4AH, but maybe the low-wattage motors do the trick here. Battery is swapable as you can see in the pics.

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If you want info on how the Chinese imports hold up, check the others category. Also, knowing that this is a builders forum, I would strongly advise cancelling your order and building your own board. That way you get to make sure you like everything about it, because you built it. It may cost more, but 800$ and a single motor will get you one of the most reliable builds money can buy, plus building is indescribable fun. There are several experts on this forum that could help you, most have done countless builds. For inspiration you may want to talk to @longhairedboy @psychotiller @lox897 and there are many more.

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Amazingly cheap. They exaggerate obviously on the range. Less volts is watt hours and less range. I get 20 real world miles with 8ah x 46 volts so about 400wh and this is 4.4 x 36volts= Depends what u want. Every complete board I’ve seen is weak and slow compared to diy

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Basically, the specs seem weak to me. those motors based on the watt ratings are weak, the range will be like 15 minutes of riding at full throttle on flat, way less if it can do any hills. Also, 6s 18650 batteries seem insane to me. You are limited in an 18650 pack by your discharge rate. Lipos can discharge almost always discharge at least 100 amps no problem. Those cells they are using are able to do 15 or 20 amps per cell in parallel. My guess is they are doing 2 groups probably, so 30-40 amps max. On 10s, I pull 40 amps on flat. At 6s I blew out a 120 amp esc, so I pulled more than 120 amps. This means you will be severely limited in your acceleration. But looking at the ratings of the motors, they probably can’t handle more than 20 amps per motor anyways.

The whole board yells to me as "a toy for a kid to ride back and fourth in front of their house’. You won’t get far, it will have weak acceleration, it won’t be able to do any hills. And it’s hard to say how many you can even upgrade later, seeing every piece of electronics they seem to use is designed for low amps, in what really is a super high amp system (due to the low voltage). Basically, you could build that board yourself for less, and have clear paths upgrade later. Or buy this now, get bored of it, and build your own later.

The price is so good, because low amp parts are way cheaper than the high amp parts our electric skateboards need. 6s batteries are way cheaper too than 12s batteries. I can why its so cheap, when you understand whats inside.

Hey thanks for the comments guys, I know this is a builders forum, but heck, this is one of the first complete skateboards with a dual drive hub motor for a resonable price. That’s got to be worth discussing. In terms of hill climbing, they claim 25 degrees, which remains to be seen. What I found noticeable in the vids is the acceleration from standstill, driving in both directions (motor at front or back) and driving on rather wet surface, which doesnt seem to bother the motor. Motor looks well sealed inside and probably heat is not an issue due to its low wattage.

25 degrees I can safely say that it will not be able to cope with. 25% grade is more reasonable, but still unlikely for a hub drive.

@Jinra: oh yea sry, it’s grade. Source is from the comment section of this youtube video

see comment section

Builders forum or not - that’s a great price on dual hub setup!

I doubt it will do the range claimed (they rarely do - especially the Chinese variants/clones), but if it works for you out of the box w/ good QC it should work ok! If you are a heavier guy - i’d cancel and go DIY. The videos i saw show it going really slow (as in poor acceleration), and some odd clicks/noises from one side when turning - not super encouraging.

Hey it’s a gamble - can you burn $450 if it doesn’t work out? vs putting that $450 into a $600+ and nicer DIY build?

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new video with hill climbing, guy on board is a bit insecure, but overall decent

This is looking more like a ramp than a hill… This is real Hill testing

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you got me, it’s a ramp, but what matters is that your hill isnt steeper than the ramp and this board only has 2x250w and it can climb from standstill and that is kinda impressive.

The point is more toward the speed and the distance, any board can do 30m at 5km/h on a ramp, a real test is 500m at 20km/h over a shitty hill road (also the board in test was doing around 30km/h on the same hill).

The biggest question with hill climbing is how quickly do the motors heat up? People keep complaining about evolve shutting down due to heat on hill climbing. This board likely won’t shutdown, but blow electronics when they get to hot. If you think the quality of this board is on par with the DIY boards, you will be very disappointed.

its’ good to see some use and hills.

The missing and critical variable for me is that you never see the rider.

Yes, i could have my 90lb (40kg) niece ride the board up a ramp/hill/incline - but a normal sized rider (let along a gargantuan rider such as myself) will be slow - or more likely walking.

It’s a budget board - i’d personally get the ego which seems to be a proven setup if slow.

or better yet - take that $$ and put it into a better DIY setup. Ton’s of options here to get inspired and spend that $!

I agree that their presentation could be better, but that doesnt mean that they are hiding something. These guys are workers from the factory, not pro-skaters. Btw you should know that Yuneec is a Chinese company aswell. Sure the Ego is proven and they have dealers all over the world. You can get it on Amazon and Ebay and 2nd hand. But why would I favor a weak single belt drive over a dual hub drive that promises to be way more powerful?

Now in terms of DIY. It’s just not for me, I find it overly complicated, time consuming and dangerous, I have no workshop, no tools and no ambition to build my own board. Doesnt mean I’m trolling here. Maybe trying to bug you with a different perspective.

No worries and appreciate the question and discussion. No issues w/ DIY not being your thing. Totally understandable.

back on topic - why this is potentially misleading in my mind. Not likely it’s intentional, but when you don’t see anything except the rider’s shoes you have no idea on the load/weight the board is carrying. So when smaller asian riders are half my weight - i watch this video and think i too can go up that incline (which i couldn’t). Not likely it’s intentional, but definitely worth noting as folks get excited seeing these videos of them being ridden.

I don’t have any issue whatsoever with chinese companies or components. Most of what i use in DIY is made in China. It’s all in the QC and overall quality of what’s made. Good feedback here and elsewhere let’s me know if it’s worth the $. Some things are more $, other less $ and a good value - regardless of where made.

The E-Go is a really well proven board, which is why i suggested it vs this less-known Koowheel.

Now the single belt motor vs hub motors. This is where others likely will disagree, and i welcome their input to give you some perspective.

A geared motor will allow for gearing below 1:1. Those ratios (i usually aim for right around 3:1(3 motor : 1 wheel)) equal torque, acceleration, and hill climbing ability - with less top speed capability (i’m ok with that compromise).

Dual hubs is a great option, but it definitely may not out perform a single belt/geared motor for hills and acceleration. It should do well on the flats assuming the same rider weight, but likely will suffer poor performance up hill where the geared motor has the 3:1 gear ratio to help keep rpm’s up and keep power going to climb.

So depending on your weight, a hub motor(s) may work well, but i would set your expectations lower for hill climbing. Especially if you aren’t a light weight rider.

Now we should get the perspective of an expert - @LEVer - can you shed some light on this?

Well I saw the hub motor comparison that Jason did, Jacob vs. Hummie, and they seem to climb the hill pretty nicely. You can check it out here if you havent seen it yet. I guess Carvon’s also do well in the dual setup. So how do you think that dual hubs would be inferior to a single belt drive in terms of hill climb.

i don’t think you are understanding the idea of gearing.

a hub motor is 1:1 drive - no gears (stary’s planetary gear being unique/unusual). So every RPM of the motor = 1 RPM of wheel.

A more traditional belt motor setup will have some gear reduction. So using Enertion’s 15/36 - you get 2.4:1 - so 2.4 rpms of the motor for every 1 RPM of the wheel.

Keeping RPM’s up w/ a brushless motor gives you more power/torque.

The hub motor comparison you linked (i saw it when originally posted) is a hub motor comparison. Not a hub vs belt comparison. Two hub motors being compared…

The new hub motors are awesome - some unique advantages with free-wheel resistance being really low, and super stealthy w/o the motor mount, belts, gears, etc. But for a bigger guy and/or hills i still feel a belt drive is superior - even a single motor would likely climb and accelerate better w/ a larger rider like myself. I can adjust gearing lower to give me better hill performance sacrificing top speed. Take a look at any of the traditional speed calculators if you want to see the trade-offs.

Again - if you are 55kg/120lbs - a hub setup likely would work really well for you. But a single belt setup still might out perform the dual hubs uphill.

here’s a good thread where you can see a Boosted Dual+, Evolve Bamboo GT, and Stary do a hill climb.

What i’m asking you to read and note - is two belt drive setups and one hub (with planetary gears - not 1:1 hub drive). Real world performance and the Stary does the worst of the 3. Rider weight is obviously variable, but they look pretty close in size.

but this is a comparison between two dual belt drives and a single hub. Now of course I have looked into the Stary a bit and it really looks cool, light weight and all but I’m not sure whether their “planetary gear” (not pretending to know what it is) is doing the job. That is a special hub design. I think to make it fair you had to compare a dual belt with a dual hub. I would like to see that. I hope someone in the community who owns both can come up with it.

let’s simplify it a bit further for you. A hub motor will not perform as well on hills as a similar belt drive setup. Simple and you can now do additional research on what you want.

a planetary gear is simply gear reduction like a belt. just without a belt. A set amount like 3:1 - multiple rotations of the motor for 1 rpm of the wheel. I don’t think Stary has released the specific gear reduction. As for wear and noise - unknown and i’d rather swap belts as they wear.

If you get the Koowheel please post up your feedback when riding it. I’m sure it’ll work well on the flats, so as long as you don’t expect it to climb bigger hills you should be fine.

I personally would still go belt before hubs (in a budget setup like this), but again i’m not an average sized rider. You’ll have to sort that out on your own.

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