Haha… TM or not, some one in china will always sell VESCs. Except the hype on the new name will become bigger, then they’ll use that instead for sure! And if trampa is selling only vescs for 300pounds that will happen for sure. Or just call it: V3SC or VeESC
I like how ‘BESK’ sounds.
It stands for ‘Benjamin electronic speed kontrollieren’
Open ESC sounds ace
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Why even go for a new name at all? We could also keep calling it VESC and the sellers should just put their own brand in front like:
esk8 ESC based on VESC enertion ESC based on VESC torqueboard ESC based on VESC
and so on.
6 Likes
I think we don´t can use Vesc only based on 4.12 Not that the customer think that was a Vesc 6
AFAIK this is not true. You will be able to get the reference design just like with the 4.12 and you can sell it. They just want you to name it differently so that people can distinguish yours from a VESC that BV endorses.
It is listed on BV’s website http://www.vesc-project.com/trademark_policies_page:
[quote] The following are examples of proper and improper usage of these trademarks of Mr. Vedder:
Correct: “your product name” compatible with “Mr.Vedder mark”
example: compatible with VESC® Software
Correct: “your product name” based upon “Mr.Vedder mark”
example: XYZ Controller based upon the VESC® Open Source Project
Correct: “your product name” for use with “Mr.Vedder mark”
example: xyz Controller for use with VESC® Software
Incorrect: “Mr.Vedder mark”-“your product name”
example: VESC® Your Brand
Incorrect: “your product name”- “Mr.Vedder mark”
example: Your Brand VESC®[/quote]
The reason why trampa told you to not use VESK8 is because it sounds very similar to VESC. If you call it “esk8 Controller based upon the VESC Open Source Project” everything will be fine
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I think the problem is that for many companies (like esk8) they are selling a VESC, exactly the way Vedder designed and want their customers to know that. The fact that everyone says the VESCs from them are reliable just makes it even more odd that Vedder has not license it to them.
So either BV will license other sellers (like he did with @trampa) or a new widely-used name must be found for VESCs using Vedder’s exact pcb design, but that are not allowed to be called a VESC because of an issue with copyright.
Any business can make fair use of the TM! You can actually use the TM VESC!
Just read the TM policies with a bit more care.
My ESC, based upon the VESC®* Open Source Project. My controller, compatible with VESC®* Open Source Software. Open-ESC, ready for VESC®*-Tool. etc, etc, etc.
*VESC® is a registered Trademark owned by Benjamin Vedder. This is his Website: www.vesc-project.com
Private people can use the TM in conversations (e.g. Forums) anyway. Since nearly every OS-Projects has TMs in place, there is probably a very good reason for that.
Dig a bit deeper and google Trademark Open Source etc. and you will see what sort of stuff is going on in this world. A TM is the only way to keep trouble away. There is no other way! Law obligates trademark owners to police their marks and prevent the use of confusingly similar names by third parties. That is legislation you can’t change, even if you would wish to handle things differently. Because a TM serves the purpose allowing customers to identify the original source. Allowing an non controlled use, or confusing use would contradict the purpose of the TM.
I think @esk8 we talked about the matter for more than an hour 6 weeks back and you got a deep insight why things need to be the way they are and why some things had to change, so that a fresh restart on solid legal foundations can happen. Its a really complex legal matter that needs to be dealt with. You can’t set up a OS-project without caring about that sort of stuff. Your entire precious house will collapse because some bad minds will identify the weak spot and will pull out the critical brick at the bottom. Its almost certain that this would happen. Project Hijacking and TM hijacking is very common! Spreading malware through Zip files is common, bad code is reality… A TM is the only way to assure a project can be identified as the original source. You can’t deny that legislation is part of reality that needs to be addressed. I’m sorry for the mail, I think you just got me wrong. I wanted to prevent that you build up your marketing on a naming strategy that is not possible by law. Think of a wisely picked name and build up from there. Make fair use of the TM! If questions arise, they can be asked. It’s in the very own interest and for the good of the Project. Help Benjamin to set up the project on a solid legal foundation by respecting his TM policies, stated on his website.
Frank
I don’t think that is true. “based on VESC” is enough for all of us to know what is going on.
Has Vedder licensed the production of the VESC to you (under the name of his project) and will this be licensed to other RELIABLE sellers (suggested by community and approved by Vedder)? This requires a yes/ no answer for each part of the question.
If the answer to the 2nd part is no, could you please go through all the suggestions for names on here and make a list of the ones you think are too close to VESC and will ‘damage’ the project. I fully respect legislation, but think that it will make there be less questions on this forum about what is the difference between x seller’s esc and x seller, when there is none. I will be posting in 20 minutes a new poll with the suggestions that you are fine with.
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I liked it when everything was just CC licenses. This is too complicated for my brain. brain explodes
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As I cannot add/ edit/ delete any polls 5mins after creating a thread, I will have to put the new poll here (Admins please replace the poll at the top with this one).
Please choose the name(s) you think are best/ suggest a better one below. I will no longer add suggestions to the poll as I have found out you can’t edit one 5mins after publishing and people keep having to revote when I make a new poll! So choose the one(s) you like best…
- NESC (New Electric Speed Controller)
- VED-ESC (Vedder Electric Speed Controller)
- BESC (Boards Electric Speed Controller)
- ESK8 Controller (esk8.de’s self explanatory suggestion )
- Open ESC or OP-ESC
- VOSC (Vedder Open Source Controller)
- CESC (Community Open Source Controller)
- VOSESC (Vedder Open Source ESC)
- ESSC (Electric Skateboard Speed Controller)
- BESC8 (Benjamin ESC 8)
- BRO-SK8 (Benjamin Retro Open SK8 controller)
0 voters
Sorry @laurnts but your 2nd suggestion (B.VESC) was too close to VESC. Same goes for @Lambjr088 (VE-Sk8) Same goes for BESC (Best Electric Speed Controller). Same for BESK (Benjamin electronic speed kontrollieren).
Study for finals for a week and then things like this happen… I think this is really strange, and not really needed at this time. The community know the reputable vendors that they can buy VESC’s from, and we know the firmwares coming from vedder are legit, and the rest are use at your own risk.
At the end of the day, 95% of VESC’s sold will not come from trampa. So the community basically pays the price so that Trampa can secure the name and not have to deal with a few potential problems.
But heres the problem: a name isn’t going to stop people from abusing the designs, spreading malware, ect. People can still put malware ect. into the firmware, and release it somewheres. You think criminals care about the copyright law?
If your worried about the malware issue for example, have vedder release all the software you need for the VESC through his website, and refer people to only download from him. This issue for example can be solved in better ways that aren’t at the price of the community.
What changing the name will do is confuse the community, make it harder for us to talk about the VESC (since we need to refer to some other name that seems like it’ll be way longer, based on your suggested use Trampa), and in general, inconvenience the community. I don’t see, through your explanation trampa, how you’ll secure the project like this. I think we’re over that hump in this project to where someone could successfully hijack it. Too many people know the right people in the game to buy them from that aren’t ripping offer vedder or the project.
The biggest gain is really Trampa’s gain, which is now they have exclusivity to a name the community has used for almost 3 years now to refer to this project. All of the SEO gains of having thousands of pages talking about it, the familiarity to the name, ect, will benefit Trampa, at the cost of the community.
Unless you can show us direct proof that this project is in such grave danger, by showing us the bad actors that want to hurt it, and show that even a bad actor at this point could dismantle and tarnish the project, it seems this was done for monetary gain in Trampas interest. If you want to protect the project ect, why not give it a new name and protect that? Why upend the community like this? You will piss off (and have pissed off) a lot of potential customers.
I;m no lawyer, but as a Software Engineer, Copyright laws are a pain in the butt, that stifle development and progress. I think if you really thought about this problem from a CS standpoint, you’d see how to secure the project without the need of getting Copyrights involved.
8 Likes
Very well said. I’m so damned angry over this, I cant even think straight about it. I’m verey happy that someone with your expertise was able to state in legal sense the happenings with this thing. It makes it much simpler to articulate a response without relying to heavily on “F#$K THOSE A%#H*@!$@” or “Profit Mongering Ass-Hat” 
.
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EMC = Electric Motor Controller. (Almost like E = mc² 
)
Keep it simple. Todays controllers regulate more than the speed so IMHO we’re way past calling it a Speed Controller.
So “[Brand] EMC based on VESC® Open source project” or similar.
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How about F-TESC! (F$%^K Trampa Electronic Speed Controller)
EDIT: My views have changed a bit since making this comment. Most importantly I think it was too hateful, so I’m taking it back.
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" If you wish to contribute to the project, just stick to what will be offered."
I’m going to assume that there is a miscommunication due to your Englishness, but that last sentence comes off as extremely douchey.
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Why not bring a “32” into the name? A lot of projects use the “32” to show that it is based on a 32bit micro controller. There is already an ESC32 out there, but why not combine any other name with the 32?
Im gonna stay out of this cluster fuck…however names and acronyms are awesome…anyone feel free to use the following they are all open sourced and shit 
TEFRV - The ESC Formerly Referred to as VESC FUKYEA - Fantastic Utopian Killer Yoddle Explosion Apparatus SAUCE - Sexy Ass Universal Cruising ESC CARVE - Colossally Awesome Ride - Ved-dude ESC
And this is the masterpiece:
SEXMACHINE - Super EXtreme, Mad Ass Carving, High Ignition, New ESC -
well shit now i need to get some stickers made!!
I feel like @longhairedboy might dig on this
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What about a recursive acronym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_acronym like “GNU is not UNIX”?