I’ve never made wild accusations. Ive asked what this does for the community and why you are uniquely suited to resolve the issues. You have still, after 30 posts, not answered the questions. You throw around rhetoric and Ben this and Ben that and dodge the questions. Its comical at this point.
As far as accusations, I have accused you of being greedy and not supporting the community. I prove these accusations bu the very fact you are using legal means to stop other sellers from selling stock they have on the shelves and that you took this action in secret. Nothing wild about it, pretty damned straight forward.
Your right, none of use do because you have been secretive about this entire process. You surprised everyone by taking away the right of others to sell using the VESC name, so they either have to trash the existing stock or use a Sharpie to mark it out (which is never gonna happen and is ridiculous to suggest).
One again, a ridiculous statement. How in the world can you know what I will like and not like? You don’t, your just trying to sell us a bag of promises.
I honestly don’t care who makes/sells VESC’s anymore. I am angry that you are trying to force others to change their business model to and costing them thousands of dollars for no other reason than your profit. If you had sent a legit letter to all of the vendors and said…
“In 90 days the VESC name will be off-limits ad you need to come up with your own name because we bought it”…
I could have respected that, but you didn’t. You pit all this together and then sprung it on everyone. I think its sleazy and greedy.
I don’t have anything against Ben, I think he made a bad decision by using someone like you who has no respect for the community and is only interested in profit…but legally that is his choice.
If you want to make this right, you should contact the VESC vendors in the UK and US that HAVE donated to Ben and tell them they have 90 or 120 days before you will enforce the trademark. That would allow them to sell there existing stock and do a lot of good for the community by not potentially putting vendors out of business and keeping the price down and availability up. Is that something you would be willing to do?
you can have one in about 3 weeks if you download the gerber files and upload them to marofab. Price starts dropping at 10 units.
you can also buy them from AXLE. And Ollin. And DIY. And Miami. And even maytech if you don’t care about anything over 10S. They simply won’t be called VESC. They’ll be called FOCBOX and OllinESC and Dexter’s Magical Fun Box and Miami Heat or something who knows. Maytech will probably just call them VESCs and give everyone the finger unless we talk them out f it, (Jollin will listen if you speak her dialect of business) but who cares.
I don’t understand. If you think people like me aren’t already doodling logos to have laser etched in thier new v6 the second those reference designs hit the market you’re nuts. Hell even direct FET 4.12s in that form factor are worth the effort, as the X clearly demonstrated.
Lets try not to skew facts in favor of argument and just stick to the simple concept of not liking all the closed doors and corporate optics from Trampa’s direction.
I didn’t come up with this storm here. TM is known since Jan 17.
Statement is out since May17, just before BETA starts. This storm just over rolled the official statement.
Next week the vendors will get a longer e-mail from Benjamin.
Renaming the thing on a website is no big deal and selling some existing stock is no big deal. If you want to conform fully, you black out the tiny VESC-Logo, job done. Doesn’t cost you thousands. Costs you an hour of time and a marker pen. Next batch new logo. Doesn’t put anyone out of business!
You ask to call them out, so I call out @onloop. I think he is the one that sold the most VESCs and didn’t donate Benjamin any money. As he says himself he is “donating to the community”.
As @Pedrodemio said this thread/forum is escalating a little bit to much about the TM thing maybe you should read your words again, so that this discussion can calm down a little.[quote=“mmaner, post:349, topic:23017”]
This is my last reply on this topic
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Wait one week when the BETAs got their VESC6’s and can tell you if @trampa has “destroyed” the VESC project (as you would say) or if they have contributed (as I would say) to an awesome product.
I’m not scewing facts, I have talked to vendors that are upset that they may have issues selling PCB’s on the shelf that say VESC. If that wasn’t an issue I wouldn’t be upset, I would just think that Frank was greedy.
Vendors are in the situation where they cannot say what they think in public about Frank because is could effect there ability to get product. I am not in that situation, so I decided to speak out.
That is your interpretation, not a fact. This action was taken over the statement that vendors were not donating to Ben. Just because Jason said he had issues with the VESC and/or Ben (and I am not saying he did, you said that) doesnt correlate to a lack of donations. I’m glad your not on a jury…
Are you gonna sell something with sharpie all over it? That’s just stupid, quality manufacturers do not send out product that looks like that. That is not a good solution, I have you a good solution and you wont even comment on it. Just proving my point again.
of course they’re going to have issues. They can’t call them VESCs and they’ve already stocked up a bunch of PCBs with VESC screen printed on them. I’d be mad too. Boo hoo. Like that time i bought a bunch of BMSs i couldn’t fucking use and China wouldn’t take them back.
And i think the position they’re in as far as feeling as if they can’t talk shit about Frank is due to their general confusion of the issues while trying to stay diplomatic. They obviously aren’t aware of the fact that what they have is a license to print money and all they have to do is come up with a logo that doesn’t say VESC.
Hell i’m a vendor and i’m on here talking shit. IF they feel they can’t, they’re pussies.
Here’s what I think is going to happen. Those people are going to have to make a VESC variant that actually holds up for more than a fucking week because they no longer have the VESC name to lean on. No more VESC IS A VESC IS A VESC so lets buy the cheapest one from aliexpress and bitch about how its crap and burned up in a month after a couple hill climbs. Now they’re buying Tommy Two Toes’ Coil Commander that fell off a truck and has a deep discount and bitching about that one failing instead. Whammo, one less bad review on a VESC that was barely even a VESC and one less hit on Benjamin.
Trampa will have the ability to use the VESC name and is using that to charge a massive premium for a massively premium product. That premium will be used to pay themselves back for the cost of doing everything they did. But that’s not going to encourage all the people to buy Trampa VESCs and eliminate the entire market and cause a drought. That’s going to encourage people with more money than time to research to buy Trampa VESCs out of an overwhelming sense of caution about not buying parts twice, a sense of caution they probably developed here while we beat that very thing into their head over the course of the past couple of years. The rest of the people are going to buy from the same damned vendors they always have, except now there’s a different sticker on it. And they’re going to keep bitching when they fail.
Its almost as if… wait for it… nothing has changed.
Can we agree that specific action was kind of shitty and call it a day?
LOL, I feel ya.
I am digging that actually, I like the idea of different variants. My issue was that Frank said this wall all for Ben and good for the community. Im calling bullshit on that, straight up lie.
Unless this market is unlike every other market ever, I think you are going to see that isn’t true in the long run.
Look at the cost of insurance in the states, doubled over 5 years because the government wanted to make healthcare accessible to everyone. Most of the people that didn’t have it 5 years ago still don’t have it but I pay twice as much for mine. The benefit? All for the insurance companies.
Look at Comcast & AT&T. They provide shitty customer server, even shittier actual service. The bump the prices, change the name, call it a day and go to sleep on big fat piles of cash.
I think this will have very little benefit to the community, Frank has demonstrated where his priorities are. I don’t think Ben is gonna get a huge windfall of cash from donations, there’s going to me too much animosity over this crap. I do think that availability is going to touchy for awhile. None of this had to happen, it could have been so much more elegant and good for almost everybody.
Availability of quality VESCs won’t be an issue once the manufacturers get done bagging the old PCBs for trash day.
I also predict MayTech will be contacting god and everybody about OEMed VESC 4.12s as well as VESC 6s. If they don’t they’re fools. I’ll take mine in red, thank you.
I’ve read the whole thread if that’s what you mean. Or maybe your saying you being a dick is a result of trampa/ben’s actions. That’s the thing with using uncommon words in place of the simple (english 101 will teach you not to do this btw) you tend to lose the meaning of what you’re trying to say.
As for me stiring up shit, I’m not the one disregarding anything anyone is trying to say to me and repeating it over and over.
You’ve had months to have a problem with this, and it was not a secret as you try to make out, just secret to you apparently.
The way VESC was being used by anyone that could piece together Ben’s design whether it be with quality parts or just absolute shit, that was destroying the name and community. Those that sell good quality shit can still use the VESC name, hell they can even call it a VESC, so long as they talk to ben and go through the motions with him as already stated.
It’s not @trampa that has exclusive access to the TM, they are the only ones that have got it at the moment, but there is nothing stopping Maytech, @onloop, @chaka, @torqueboards and others getting their license by talking to Ben. So if any of them are the ones that you’ve had conversations with about how shitty this all is, perhaps their time would be best spent talking to Ben rather than you.
Please all calm down! Wait for BETA and judge after that period. Vendors will get a notification next week. No intention to put them in a miserable situation. Think of a rebranding and Benjamin will assure a smooth transition within the period of beta. Stock hardware is no problem! There are no intentions to create a pile of unnecessary waste.
